Change of Mind On ATV Ambulance
Congratulations to the Ambulance Committee for coming to their senses and voting against spending over $17,000.00 for a used ATV, an enclosed trailer to store and transport it and a carrier for it. Trailer hitches, extra vehicle and helmets not included.
The Ambulance Service headed by Mr. Roy Griggs had requested the committee allow them to move some excess money around in their budget and purchase this equipment to be used "for getting injured hunters out of the woods". While this may have sounded reasonable and necessary when presented by Mr. Griggs in the last meeting, sounder heads prevailed and examined the request outside the emotional plea of Mr. Griggs.
First of all the ambulance personnel do not go into the woods and get injured hunters, they do not go down embankments and cut people out of wrecked vehicles, they do not drive across field to get farmers from under overturned tractors, those things are done very efficiently by the Rescue Squad Members. What I strongly suspect the ATV would be used for by the Ambulance Service is to bobble around the very flat grounds of the Ag. Center during the fair; for parades, football games and other events where a crowd might be gathered, even thought those activities would allow for an ambulance.
It seems that the Ambulance Service padded their budget once again, this time by about $190,000.00 and now they are looking for a way to spend all that money. What a terrible agonizing burden that must be compared to simply not spending the money on frivolous wants and giving the taxpayer a break.
The Ambulance Service headed by Mr. Roy Griggs had requested the committee allow them to move some excess money around in their budget and purchase this equipment to be used "for getting injured hunters out of the woods". While this may have sounded reasonable and necessary when presented by Mr. Griggs in the last meeting, sounder heads prevailed and examined the request outside the emotional plea of Mr. Griggs.
First of all the ambulance personnel do not go into the woods and get injured hunters, they do not go down embankments and cut people out of wrecked vehicles, they do not drive across field to get farmers from under overturned tractors, those things are done very efficiently by the Rescue Squad Members. What I strongly suspect the ATV would be used for by the Ambulance Service is to bobble around the very flat grounds of the Ag. Center during the fair; for parades, football games and other events where a crowd might be gathered, even thought those activities would allow for an ambulance.
It seems that the Ambulance Service padded their budget once again, this time by about $190,000.00 and now they are looking for a way to spend all that money. What a terrible agonizing burden that must be compared to simply not spending the money on frivolous wants and giving the taxpayer a break.
posted by Allen Barrett | 3:56 PM
30 Comments:
You sir, have apparently been misinformed on where the EMS employees do and do not go. No pt is moved without first being assessed by EMS in a critical situation you refer to.(ie. tractor accident, fallen hunter, wreck victim,etc.) These patients are assessed by EMS, and in most cases for a critical trauma pt are fully immobilized onto a spine board and secured to prevent further injury.
Yes, the rescue squad does aid in moving some of these patients, but the rescue squad is a volunteer organization and they are not always on scene or available to assist EMS. Moving a pt in the bed of a pickup truck is far from the safest or most efficient means of transfer. This method will eventually cause further injury of pt or crew members, and i am surprised it has not happened as of yet! That is why several surrounding counties have the very type of vehicle Mr. Griggs requested.
Regardless of whether or not they were granted the purchase of the ATV
i think it is important that people realize and understand that your comment is quite false actually!!! People, especially yourself obviously,should realize that everywhere the rescue squad goes to get a pt EMS personnel are already on scene!
Perhaps I failed to be clear. In the context of my statement I was speaking of the ambulance itself being taken to the scene of such situations not the EMS personnel. Certainly reasonable people would hope that the EMS personnel would be able to reach victims of accidents. My point was that Rescue Squad personnel and their vehicles are the closest to the event. Transporting an injured patient on an ATV can be just as hazardous as using a pick up truck. The whole matter hinges on the security of the patient in both modes of transport. For the cost of nearly $20,000.00 not including maintenance an ATV is just overly expensive and impractical.
Thank you for clarification. You specifically stated " EMS personnel " so that is where the confusion stemmed from.
As for expensive I digagree...costly maybe...but i do not consider the value of anyones life "expensive". That particular equipment could save valuable minutes in a rescue/retrieval operation. And in the medical field minutes could mean life or death.
You can cut someone from a car with a hacksaw and a bottle jack and be effecient... but jaws of life and a hydraulic ram are faster....same difference.
what happened to the old fashion way of getting out and walking
looks like vanzant is back to old tricks again by tricking commisoners into giving her power to get rid of ambulance service director, Roy better look out
Nothing wrong with walking to the pt...they do it every day...just sometimes carrying them out becomes unsafe. Bicycles can get you to where you are going....but I bet u drive a car when you go to the store! What say you?
well, why aren't helicopters being used since they are so much faster and expense is no longer a problem. Just fly everywhere and forget the ambulances all together. 5740
The ambulance service is without a doubt the most wasteful area of the entire county government. Did you notice how quiet Griggs was just before the elections when his want list was for a new garage and new furniture? Now that the elections are over he ramps up the give me give me stuff again. Privatizing the ambulance service would eliminate this waste. Speaking of waste why are taxpayer dollars used to buy gas for a sheriffs deputy to carry his child to school in a patrol car when a school bus goes right past his house? Hint Elkton
When someone you love needs an ambulance I bet you understand them.
Don't the ambulance have to take them to a place for the helicopter to land?
Looks like another thread where Barrett showed his ass with misinformation and had to lay in the shit he fell back into. What a moron.
There you go again 7:03 what did he get wrong.
Is 7:03 hitting the bottle?
Rescue squad are never the closest to any emergency as that they are all volunteer. We are at home cutting the yard, we are at work and may or may not be able to leave, some members may have a 4 wheeler to take a medic to the patient but most don't. But none of us have what mr griggs was asking for. I have personally been on scenes of falling victims where patients are hauled out of the woods in a squad members truck and it is NOT the way a injured person should be transported. The rescue squad does not have a single truck that an immobilized patient strapped to a back board will fit into. What is so wrong with Mr Briggs trying to help his employees do their more efficiently.
Rescue squad are never the closest to any emergency as that they are all volunteer. We are at home cutting the yard, we are at work and may or may not be able to leave, some members may have a 4 wheeler to take a medic to the patient but most don't. But none of us have what mr griggs was asking for. I have personally been on scenes of falling victims where patients are hauled out of the woods in a squad members truck and it is NOT the way a injured person should be transported. The rescue squad does not have a single truck that an immobilized patient strapped to a back board will fit into. What is so wrong with Mr griggs trying to help his employees do their more efficiently.
"First of all the ambulance personnel do not go into the woods and get injured hunters, they do not go down embankments and cut people out of wrecked vehicles, they do not drive across field to get farmers from under overturned tractors, those things are done very efficiently by the Rescue Squad Members."
This is a direct quote from your initial post. Then you tried to explain it using the following quote from your second post.
"Perhaps I failed to be clear. In the context of my statement I was speaking of the ambulance itself being taken to the scene of such situations not the EMS personnel."
You performed a total 180 on this. Allen you screwed the pooch totally on this. Drop back ten and punt.
What part of "DRIVE" don't you understand 7:16.
Tell me one time an ambulance attendant used the jaws of life to rescue somebody or drove their ambulance across a field to get somebody? The man was clearly talking about the vehicles not the individuals. I am a member of the Rescue Squad and I have been there.
What is an ATV?
What does " Drop back ten and punt" mean?
Wow this is the first time I have visited this site and quiet frankly I am both shocked and dismayed and the misinformation being posted. As both a former Fire and rescue member and the family member of both rescue members and EMS personnel in more than one county I find it utterly appalling to think that the request for funds to better the ambulance services efficiency in life and death rescues would even be questioned. Until you have walked in the shoes of a squad member or EMS worker who are you to judge. the risk their lives , expose them selves and their family to numerous hazards so as to serve their community. Mr. Barrett if it were you your significant other or perhaps even your child injured in a car wreck, or ATV accident, or if it was simply you walking in the woods and fallen in a sink hole and broken multiple bones in your body.Would you be so quick to deny either organizations the equipment or funds to safely and effectively remove you from a potentially life threatening situation. This entire situation greatly concerns me especially since you apparently have no real concept of the work training and dedication put forth by each and every member of the EMS and Fire and rescue personnel. You may want to possible be a bit more diligent in your fact collections in the future. It is obvious that at this point you are very mistaken in the separate and critical roles EMS and fire and rescue plays in the recovery effort of a injured person. I personally support the idea of the ATV so that ems personnel may safely transport a victim as well as life saving equipment into any areas that would other wise be detrimental to them selves as well as their patient. But of course I do live out in the county and I trust that Mr. Griggs is doing his best to effectively and efficiently cover the cost and up keep to provide this county with the well trained and diligent personnel needed to insure that we will all equally receive the utmost professional and up to date care from.
To 7:51 I appreciate your thoughts and the sacrifices that your family members make. Your assumption that I know nothing of this type work, or that I have not walked a mile in those shoes is incredibly judgmental on your part. I spent over twenty years in the military and most of those years was in emergency rooms where I not only headed triage teams I also worked emergency runs. As a 91C I am sure that I have as much medical training as most EMS personnel. As a combat medic I'm equally sure that I have dealt with my share of trauma.
As for the ATV over seventeen thousand dollars for a USED ATV, a used enclosed trailer is not only wasteful but absurd. Also needed would be a dedicated vehicle to pull it hitches, helmets and maintenance on all the equipment. It would also require an additional person go to the scene ignored for the ATC to be taken there. I am not necessarily opposed to having the equipment but believe it would be better used by the Rescue Squad not the ambulance service and the cost is as I said absurd. The county simply does not have the money to continue pouring into the Ambulance Service for luxury items when they continue to lose millions of dollars.
The post by 7:51 was certainly emotional and also factual. However Allen's last sentence on his reply say's it all. All this stuff cost entirely too much money. We could say to heck with the school system, the sheriff's department, the highway department and all the necessities the county provides and give it all to Roy. Then we could we could have all these frills. A good manager takes his funds and uses them is the most efficient manner. A hand always held out wanting more money from the taxpayers while not doing everything possible to collect huge amounts of money owed to you is not good management. More oversight of the Ambulance Service is certainly needed.
Mr Barrett I would like to thank you for your service to our country, however as presumptuous as I may seem it is equally presumptuous of you to compare the ins and outs of the medical service between a military service and the daily workings of the EMS Department. Ems will respond to every call from an infant to the elderly unlike those of the military where even though horrific at times should not be compared. These are two completely different circumstances. Who are we to place a price or decide what is or is not wasteful when it comes to saving a life? The rescue squad however diligent and helpful they are , they do not respond to all Medical emergencies within the county. Yes new equipment would be ideal as well as yearly raises and better health care for the County workers, but we do not live in the ideal world. Being on the outside of any organization looking in and making judgment calls is all good and well. Has anyone asked or researched the last time the employees of the EMS were given a decent pay raise? Not just a few cents on the dollar. When was the last time any of us were expected to work a 24 hour shift without a break for sleep or to eat? Mr Griggs may need to go about his budgeting in a different manner but it appears as though he is trying to find ways to make the work load a little easier for these men and women. If the used equipment is the issue then perhaps the committee should further look into a new ATV and trailer that can be dispatched at the time of a rural accident. Which can accompany an Ambulance unit and be brought to a scene by the supervisor on duty. Or maybe the county should look into a military grade ambulance that can cover any and all terrains. And as far as collection of moneys owed to the EMS department they have a billing department that handles that but should he or any ems personnel be allowed to deny services to someone who can not afford them. Is that not basically playing God and deciding who shall or shall not receive better medical services in an emergency situation.
Such idiocy of some people! I do appreciate your military service Mr Barrett, but I'd have to disagree that you have as much training as EMS personnel. All you do is talk and gripe about the luxuries they have. They spend every third day away from their families 24 hours at a time. Many have been doing it for years. So yes, furniture and updated items are needed. As for the ATV, yes it is costly, but would be beneficial. I'm glad to see you think the rescue squad can save everyone. Guess who gets in the mangled vehicle and taking care of the patients with all the blood, tears, and screams? By no means, am I disrespecting the rescue squad. They are very important to have, but as another commented, they are volunteers. Heck, from what I hear, EMS personnel doesn't make that much either. But they will tell you, it's not about the money. The profession chose them. Many people, including some commissioners, have stated they couldn't do their jobs. I challenge you for once, instead of trying to find something bad going on, ask about what good has happened. And on the issue of selling the ambulance service. Bad idea. Even if the county went with a private service, money would still have to be spent. At least what money is brought in off revenues goes back to general fund. You have no clue on what actually goes on with anything. Always finding the worse scenario of any matter.
4:50 AM Please explain how money would have to be spent on the Ambulance Service if it was sold to a private service. Thanks.
9:35 I don’t want to sound critical of your post but it seems you either have given little thought to the actual duties of a military medic or else you have simply limited experience with either military medics and EMS personnel. An emergency room is the same regardless of the hospital in that you never know what’s gonna come through the doors next. An ambulance run military or civilian is much the same in that you never know exactly what you will find at the scene. A pile up on the autobahn involving forty or more vehicles can give you a years worth of experience in one day just as an overturned van filled with a large family. It’s not always the physical situation that takes the told. You have never heard me criticize or diminish what EMS personnel do. A civilian with a broken back, collapsed lung, gunshot wound or laceration that left heir intestines exposed is no different than a soldier with the same problem.
While I agree that the Rescue Squad members may not attend every medical emergency situation, what sense would it make for them to come to a house in town where a person was having chest pains, they do attend those emergencies where they are useful. While the rescue squad members may not provide direct medical care they provide the way by which the EMS personnel are able to reach those in need. They are two separate entities with separate responsibilities but the same goals. It’s like a broken water line the backhoe operator digs up the line but a plumber fixes the problem, sometimes there duties overlap so it is with the Rescue Squad and the Ambulance Service.
The bottom line is this, the ambulance service is very poorly managed and has been for a number of years. Personnel are poorly scheduled and collections are inadequate even after hiring a collection service, at a very high rate, the percentage is very low. As for a “decent” pay increase that is totally subjective as to what a decent pay increase might be. Some counties pay more and some pay less but here EMS personnel are paid more than the average wage for the county as are most other county employees. It’s very seldom that anyone gets a pay increase that is more than a “few cents on the dollar”. To save a life is easily worth millions but how much should one be paid for driving to Nashville or sleeping while on duty, or washing an ambulance You see part of the job may be highly skilled and dramatic while another part may be very mundane it’s all combined into a single job. People are not forced into being ambulance personnel and they can leave at anytime they also know going in what the salary is.
To 4:50. Idiocy you say? You declare that I don’t have as much training as EMS personnel but you have no idea how much training, experience or knowledge I have only that I don’t have as much as EMS personnel.
You make much of my case with your comment, “they spend every third day away from their families 24 hours at a time”. You are aware that many of the ambulance personnel are part time employees who are working at other jobs during those other two days? Twelve hour shifts would work just as well if not better for most personnel and their families except for the extra job.
You say that EMS personnel are not in their position for the money that the profession chose them and you talk about idiocy. I would say that as volunteers the Rescue Squad would be the ones not in it for the money not those who take a job then complain about how much or little they make. No one is forced into a profession nor are they required to remain in such a profession against their will.
I have nothing but respect for the members of the ambulance service and the rescue squad but I do not believe either should be run by poor management or unlimited budgets. I also believe if a service continually loses or misuses assets that are available then the management is broken.
Most of my above comment can also apply to your statements so I will close with this. An ambulance service is required to meet certain standards required by the state, regardless of who owns the service. If the ambulance service was sold the services would still be available the only difference would be that the county would no longer be required to cover the massive losses incurred each year by the service. Many of the objection to selling the ambulance service are the very same ones voiced at selling the hospital. Today it would be very hard to find any knowledgable person with an objection to the hospital having been sold.
Bring it on down to Loserville!
By the time you can get an "emergency" ATV to a victim you could probably have 6 EMTs with a Stoke's Litter already carrying the victim out. I know. I've done this type of work before. Also, the jostling of the victim while being carried out by the ATV could do more damage than help. Likewise, I doubt you could monitor the victim's vital signs in an ATV. This I also know. My experience is based on what I did in the Appalachian and Blue Ridge Mtns. of East Tennessee and North Carolina.
Such a vehile here would be a waste of tax payers money and just another toy for the EMTs around here.
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