Abuse of Sick Leave
I have a few questions, I need help with concerning a situation in the Tax Assessors Office.
1st Question: Why would a county employee or anyone else be allowed to accumulate 222 days of sick leave? Most businesses even those with very liberal sick leave policies put a cap on the amount of time you can accumulate. Not so with the county which allows an unlimited amount of sick leave to be accumulated.
Another problem with unlimited sick leave is the added difficulty and expense of hiring a temporary replacement for an unknown period of time and the burden placed on other workers who have to take up the slack. Understand I'm not talking about a couple of days or even a week but at this moment over nine months and many months yet to go.
2nd Question, If a person is determined to be unable to work shouldn't they be declared disabled and put on workman's comp or permanent disability? This person hasn't worked in the Tax Assessors office since 15 February 2008. Is it reasonable that they draw full pay keep their position and continue to accumulate even more sick leave while not working a single hour at their job? Is it fair for the others in that office?
3rd Question: If a person is determined to be unable to work how often should an update of condition from a doctor be required? For this particular person there was one statement issued from a doctor on 4 March 2008. Since then the person has not spent one hour at work in the Assessor's office yet has been able to ride his motorcycle many miles including one trip to South Carolina and back. Is it reasonable that a person would have the stamina and ability to ride that far on a vibrating motorcycle but can't sit two or three hours a day in an office doing what he's being paid for?
Shouldn't there be a requirement for an update from the doctor at least every three months?
4th Question: Is it reasonable that those working in the Assessor's office be subjected to the additional frustration of not being able to hire a replacement and absorb the extra work left by this person's absence? If it is not an added burden then is it necessary to hire a replacement when this person retires at the end of his sick leave?
5th Question: Why has it been so difficult for those in charge, the Tax Assessor, the County Executive, Financial Management Director and the County Commissioners, to take the responsibility and change this current situation by requiring timely updates from the doctor about the work status of this individual and for changing this situation so it's not repeated in the future? Allen Barrett
1st Question: Why would a county employee or anyone else be allowed to accumulate 222 days of sick leave? Most businesses even those with very liberal sick leave policies put a cap on the amount of time you can accumulate. Not so with the county which allows an unlimited amount of sick leave to be accumulated.
Another problem with unlimited sick leave is the added difficulty and expense of hiring a temporary replacement for an unknown period of time and the burden placed on other workers who have to take up the slack. Understand I'm not talking about a couple of days or even a week but at this moment over nine months and many months yet to go.
2nd Question, If a person is determined to be unable to work shouldn't they be declared disabled and put on workman's comp or permanent disability? This person hasn't worked in the Tax Assessors office since 15 February 2008. Is it reasonable that they draw full pay keep their position and continue to accumulate even more sick leave while not working a single hour at their job? Is it fair for the others in that office?
3rd Question: If a person is determined to be unable to work how often should an update of condition from a doctor be required? For this particular person there was one statement issued from a doctor on 4 March 2008. Since then the person has not spent one hour at work in the Assessor's office yet has been able to ride his motorcycle many miles including one trip to South Carolina and back. Is it reasonable that a person would have the stamina and ability to ride that far on a vibrating motorcycle but can't sit two or three hours a day in an office doing what he's being paid for?
Shouldn't there be a requirement for an update from the doctor at least every three months?
4th Question: Is it reasonable that those working in the Assessor's office be subjected to the additional frustration of not being able to hire a replacement and absorb the extra work left by this person's absence? If it is not an added burden then is it necessary to hire a replacement when this person retires at the end of his sick leave?
5th Question: Why has it been so difficult for those in charge, the Tax Assessor, the County Executive, Financial Management Director and the County Commissioners, to take the responsibility and change this current situation by requiring timely updates from the doctor about the work status of this individual and for changing this situation so it's not repeated in the future? Allen Barrett
posted by Allen Barrett | 8:36 AM
51 Comments:
I really need a job working for the county. No job or company would allow this in the private sector. Most are finding ways to limit insurance benefits or put the load on the worker.
This is something should of been thought about years ago.
That's one of the benefits. So if you're not sick why take the days.
If you had a bad sickness and need the days, that's good for that person.
If the days are never used, don't they add to the retirement as extra days.
Some people working for the school system have almost a year added because of sick days and personal days never took.
Best thing I can say is get a job with the county.
I don't know who you were talking about, but does seem like a ridding to South Carolina and back on a motor cycle, seems well. Maybe his idea is use up sick days then retire.
How many years have sick days been allowed to accumulate in the school system and county is probably the same? I think many years.
Surely something can be done about this? How about one of the Nashville News Stations? I'm sure they'd love to investigate this.
180 days in school system= 1 year for accumulating sick days, (I think this is right, if not, it's close), teachers get two personal days/year that cannot be accumulated, but if not used will be rolled to sick leave....state not county pays for sick days
Does the state pay sick days for cafeteria workers,secretaries, aids and janitors or just for teachers and principals?
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Ooooh, I believe you have struck a nerve, Allen.
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Think so, or is it that he is revealing the corruption of this county.
how is it revealing corruption when that is a benefit of working for the county. so you think the employees should be able to build up sick time and then not be able to use it? so lets take away the vacation time thats built up too.
The State Departments have the same sick leave plans. Why punish someone who comes to work every day and not abuse his sick leave days just to take off from work. When the days might be needed, then they are there for use. If not used, they are used in calculating years (partial years) toward added retirement. Again, the State does the same thing as well as all other counties.
If the man is abusing his sick leave, that's another problem, but don't harass the people who work hard, on the job every day and does his job because one person is abusing the system.
It is a current benefit. It is a benefit that has been on the books for a while. It is probably time that someone looked at in and recommended a change, because it is not fiscally responsible. In the mean time, we will just have to live with it.
I deleted two posts from this thread because of the vulgarity that was used. There are many terms and names that can be used on this blog to describe me or anyone else without showing the lazy ignorance of an undeveloped vocabulary.... Allen Barrett
The problem isn't so much that the policy has been in effect but that there seems to be an abuse of the benefit that has caused and continues to cause a major difficulty for the whole county.
While I believe that the policy of unlimited sick leave accumalition is excessive and far too liberal, those who have been allowed to accumlate such sick leave should not be punished because they followed the rules that were in place.
Now, the policy needs to be changed to make it more reasonable by limiting the number of days a person can accumulate and statements from a doctor should be required for anything over three days and updated statements from a doctor each month leave is being taken.
For those who presently have accummulated leave they should have the option to either sale it back to the county or apply it toward their retirement date. This would free up the position and allow someone else to be hired and the job could be continued without all the hardship, confusion and extra expense caused by someone being out for an unknown time.
The current Tax Assessor has said on a number of occasions that he is unable to do some aspects of the job because he is short staffed. Even with an extra person he has stated that with his assistant out for an unknown time it has created a great burden on the other workers and prevented some things from being done in a timely fashion. Allen Barrett
I personally know teachers who have accumulated 200 days of sick leave, to retire with that adding to their retirement. I have no problem with that, and no one else should either. Now, if I get cancer or some other illness that may require me to be off work for 6 months to a year, I hope I will have enough accumulated sick time to cover the time I am unable to work. Remember, just because you are sick doesn't mean you don't have to pay your bills! If I have 150 day or 1500 days of sick leave accumulated, it is there for me to use just for that purpose. However, I also know people that receive 10 sick days a year from their employer, and NEVER have a sick day left at the end of the year. They have Friday-itis or some other day of the week -itis. That is there choice as well. I don't know why some of you think this policy "needs to be investigated". Do you suspect someone is milking the system? Is it your business?
Too much emotion here. Wouldnt it be reasonable to first look at the county personnel policy as to how much sick leave is granted per month and amend that policy. (4 hours a month would be reasonable and I know there will be screaming about that suggestion). A cap should be put on the number of days allowed to accumulate. If at the time of retirement an employee has a number of sick days accumulated, that could be minused from the retirement date and the person could leave early but be paid up to chosen retirement date. Then you would not have a lengthy burden on the rest of the employees and there would not be a financial burden on the county taxpayers. Remember though the current personnel policy was put together by Ms Vanzant, best friend to all county employees.
If you look for ways to mess things up - look to government. Vacation is the time set aside for taking a day or other earned period of time off. It is a fringe benefit & should be booked as an expense & liability with payroll. It's taken when planned & without interferrence with the operations. That way, the money is set aside & doesn't interfere with operational funding.
Sick days should be a fringe benefit same as insurance. In the private sector, income guarantee is not unheard of. However you have to be sick & you can't simply disappear with full pay for a year!
This fiasco is not the fault of the employee or department heads. If they asked the state what to do, it would be a lot worse!
Running the operation is number one priority. You can't run a small operation when a key employee decides to disappear for a year, be it now or just before they retire!
It's time to fix the problem! 1) Pool the money owed together & determine the liability. 2) determine the insurance charges to fund income continuance policies based on guarantees with seniority or other consideration. 3) Consider a buy out of whatever is owed & start over.
Looks like another unfunded liability wating to bite the taxpayer in the rear end! Face it - the sick pay is owed!
An excellent subject that needs immediate correction!
Savings potential - work objective destruction plus excess employees, taxes, etc., etc., etc. - because you never really know who is going to show up for work! I know, most are very good employees who are at work every day needed plus - - - give them a break & the money that is theirs & should be in their bank or wherever they want it to be.
Didn't this man almost die when he first got sick?
Could it be he has to stay away from stress for awhile?
Has the doctor given him the ok to go back to work? That could be checked out.
Many people almost die when they first get sick but when they get well they should be back on the clock. One of the problems as I see it is that there has been no information from the doctor for almost a year. How much trouble would it be for this guy to simply bring in a doctors statement that he is unable to sit at his desk for any amount of time but can take cross country trips on a motorcycle.
What stress?
Wow! Yet ANOTHER negative thread put up by the ALL-KNOWING one! Why can't we talk about positives instead of these witch hunts against Mrs. Vanzant, Mr. Jackson, Cathy Norman, and etc? I suppose there's no fun in talking about good things, is there?
726 Positive? How about a trisexual marriage with them adopting you as an icon of why conventional sex and marriage are counterproductive! Looks like you have already selected the threesome. Maybe you all could get an interview between the three flags behind Obama, next to the president elect alter.
Talk about diversity, or is triversity or quadraversity - y-all'd have it iced. Y-all could start your own university.
why don't you just go to the "3 STAR" thread and write all the positives youy want. On second thought why don't you just write positive things on every one of the threads?
School employees get 10 sick days a year. Most don't have any left at the end of the year. I agree that a policy should be in place for abusing accumulated sick leave. I doubt that the person in question has not been to the doctor since March. He was so seriously ill that I am sure he goes for regular check ups and is assessed then. Nobody would be given a year off at a time. If he has that many sick days he would be able to use them toward his retirement credit. Those are state guidelines. County employees including school employees are vested with Tennessee State retirement. If you have 29 years with the county and 1 year of sick leave you would qualify for 30 years of service. I think we need to give this guy a break. If you want to complain about the benefits so be it but this a statewide policy not county. The county may decide how many days they get a year but the state lets you accumulate those days. 200 days accumulated would be an acception not a rule. Not many people can accumulate that many or don't choose to.
7:40 anonymous..
Why is it that anytime those of my "ilk" hit a nerve with you guys you either call us nasty names or make accusations of some deviant sexual perversion? I'm beginning to think you need to spend your time doing more profitable things like reading Oedipus Rex.
You really need to calm down and consider why you are so filled with hatred toward certain people.
740 One might think you think you're normal
Read the book and extrapolate. OK?
I know a school system employee who got sick and had not accummulated enough sick days to cover the amount of time he was to be off (6 months and had a doctors statement for that amount of time). After his sick days ran out he lost his insurance because to keep the insurance they have had to work at least 1 day a month or pay the entire premium yourself (which is quite ridiculous), he eventually had to use the medical leave act to secure his job. Because he can not qualify for any kind of long term disabilty(he has tried several times and insurance companies turn him down based on his health conditions) he was left with no insurance.
So the fact may be this employee is draging out his sick days to keep the insurance that is paying for his medical insurance that he would probably not be able to afford and he would probably not be able to get health insurance from a different place due to the fact he has been sick.
If employees do earn that amount of sick days it is because they worked for them and deserve the right to use them as neccessary with a doctors statement.
511 good comment - gets at what's wrong with the insurance racket & the political crap that allows it.
Maybe Obama can do one goot hing with the health neglect monopolies
They need a medical IRA - where the money is dumped in an interest bearing account tax free, until it's needed.
Yea we need "free" universal health care so we can all sit in the emergency room and doctor's office and die waiting with the illegals. If we have "free" universal medical like Canada then where will the Canadians go for medical care?
What some fools and their foolish thinking. I am glad these folks don't run this county.
Wait til the dems introduce another form of "hillary care" health insurance. That's when the Canadians will be up the creek without a paddle.
Look at it this way, the illegals get all of the health care they want now - things citizens can't have or afford. Citizens are paying for it in their health care premiums and taxes! Get an affliction & see if you can get insurance or decent health care! You will find out what impoverishment and beholding to the master of society is all about! Thanks to the Dems & Repugs.
Soon there will be no health care provided by employers, based on the owner of the company's inability to pass it on to the consumer (citizens). But, there will be no private companies left, because third world imports are cheaper & provide essentially nothing for their slave subjects or so called freemen who work for a bowl of rice. Thanks to Clinton & Bush & now Obama.
We think we're free & have a right to vote, etc.; but the candidates are picked for you & rammed down your throat 24 hours a day by the politamedia. You have a right to free speech, but it will get you fired from your job, jailed, & extra time for saying what you may want to say.
There is freedom of thought, but the airways & education system will leave you thoughtless and irrelevant.
We have economic freedom, but global monopolies have gobbled up everything of any value to price as they please. You will be taxed to sustain them whenever they mess up. You will be denied your moment in court if they wrong you.
We are reaching the point where total socialism would be better than global imperialism by monopolists. No need to hang on to your rear end, it doesn't belong to you anymore.
Nothing could be much worse than what we have right now.
Yes it could. In the not so distant future you will look back on today and wish for its return.
Lets look at Mr. McGill's office. He has 8 employees on the county payroll. Is this standard for assessors offices across the state. I dont know I havent researched it. I know in these hard economic times do they really need that many employees in this office. When I have been in there they havent looked that busy and they wouldnt even wait on me when I went in there. Are they so busy that they cant help the public or are we moving to a society where the customer doesnt come first anymore. I am not sure about all this so would someone enlighten me.
I heard Lawrence county with a large number of parcels to assess have four employees. At reassessment time, they bring in a couple of people for a short period of time.
Sick days "EARNED".....
Sick days "USED"
because you are sick....
Sound like the purpose of the policy.
Should policy be changed and limits added. Yes, but hindsight cannot be implemented in this case.
If the employee has a letter from physician stating he is unable to work....there ya go.
County employee benefit packages should be reviewed and changed.
845 agreed - leave the person alone! The days were earned by policy & are being paid accordingly - as such any left should be on the books as an on demand liability. Change the policy, give him the money & credited time & replace him if he can't return or plans to retire!
Dumb policies can be changed - tell the state to butt out.
Problem is as I understand the 1st entry there ain't been no statement from the doctor since last March.
Even if he has earned the time don't mean he is free to take it the way he is and cause so much trouble in a office that already is totally inefficient.
As serious as his health situation was at the time I know that he has been to the doctor frequently. He was in the hospital for a long time. I know someone who had the same problem and was a housewife unable to do anything for six months and hers was found in routine health screen. This man almost died and was in bad shape for a long time. He probably was in the hospital until March. I know that he has had numerous doctor visits. Unless we know the true facts we should not be judging him. Has anyone seen the doctor's excuse. I do not know this man personally but I know that he is blessed to be here.
Maybe he is really sick. Heard several say they're sick to death of all the waste during the good times & nothing left but disaster now.
Didn't give raises to the people we really needed - fattened up a couple of drones & built the tower of babble. Wow!
Speared by Jacksonomics
Speared by Jacksonomics? Absolutely hilarious! Please explain Jacksonomics. This ought to be good. And don't forget to be as negative and smearing as you can be. It only adds flavor.
839 you'l have to go back to old elementary texts for the answer. Way back when, children were taught the difference between grasshoppers (green) & ants. TJ obviously flunked that portion of his education. Does a light bulb flicker? If not, we'll provide clues.
example:
1) Shove your arm deep in an ant hill. What happened?
2) hold a grashopper in your palm for a few minutes, What happened?
ANS???
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<
<
<
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1) ants bite when you mess with the, like what's been happening to you
2) guess what the brown stuff in your palm is? If you're too dumb to know what happened, chance are you will be dunged on again & again
Riddler...or is it anonymous this time?
Either way, you are anonymous and, as you guys say, insignificant. Worse than that, you are politically impotent, and isn't that what this is all really about? I think we both know the answer to that.
By the way, since I'm so "dumb" why don't you enlighten me on the basic tenets of Jacksonomics? I can hardly wait to hear your gems of wit. Laughing here of course.
to Dec 7 9:37-You made the statement that "even if he has earned them"...that's EXACTLY what those days mean; he is free to use them as needed, and since he earned them, he is the one who gets to decide if he needs them, not you, not me, not any taxpayer; as you said, "he earned them." Far as I know, the "spreading the wealth around" hasn't started yet and employees do indeed earn sick days which by definition means the days belong to them. They don't have to share them with anybody.
The problem is having people at work when you need them - a critical issue to any operation. This is a top level management problem. Here we treat vacation days as sick days & a savings account as daily wages. The expense & liability must be recorded as it is earned. When oaud, out comes out of the liability accound & there is no budget problem.
Here we have an individual with what amounts to a year of pay accumulated, with the right to disappear for that year of time. If the expenses were recorded in the time earned, it wouldn't affect the budget & you can hire someone temporary to fill in.
With all the hanky panky that goes on in government accounting, we may or may not have a real problem. If the expense & liability wasn't recognized when it was earned, big mess & no $$ other than reserves. Otherwise, hire a temp & move on.
I understand that there still has not been a statement from his doctor since the original back in March..
COUNTY OFFICIALS,
CHANGE THE POLICY..FIX THE PROBLEM SO IT WON'T HAPPEN AGAIN...AND MOVE ON. THIS EMPLOYEE IS WITHIN HIS RIGHTS UNDER THE POLICY THAT HE EARNED THE DAYS. HINDSIGHT TELLS US THAT THE POLICY NEEDS TO BE CHANGED. DO IT!!!! AND SHUT UP!
The employee is abusing the privilege by not submitting statements from the doctor stating he should no be at work. If the doctor states he can't work but is able to ride a motorcycle two thousand miles that would be the end of the matter. Current policy should be changed to reflect a more appropriate and consistent benefit for the employees and the county.
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