The purpose of the "Giles Free Speech Zone" is to identify problems of concern to the people of Giles County, to discuss them in a gentlemanly and civil manner, while referring to the facts and giving evidence to back up whatever claims are made, making logical arguments that avoid any use of fallacy, and, hopefully, to come together in agreement, and find a positive solution to the problem at hand. Help make a difference! Email "mcpeters@usit.net" to suggest topics or make private comments.
What’s the problem with implementing the Financial Management Act that was adopted by an overwhelming majority of Giles County VOTERS?
Well, it seems the major problem is with some in our county officials simply not wanting to lose their power. Their fear is so great they seem willing to do most anything to protect their own little kingdoms. (click on "comments" to continue)
posted by J. Kendrick McPeters | 11:21 PM
166 Comments:
From the very beginning the County Executive was opposed to the act being adopted. When she had the opportunity to appoint members to the committee she chose only county commissioners and then two who were very vocal in their opposition to the act. The next activity was to create an illusion that the position would be a terrible budget buster for the county.
In the past few weeks there have been some amazing revelations in reference to the opposition and actions taken by those in authority. First it was reported by the County Executive that after the evaluations were done, by SARDI with the University of Georgia, they reported that none of the applicants were qualified and that certainly seemed to be the case. The problem is that a second set of applicants were sent and the evaluation came back with a second letter dated 19 March 2007. This evaluation reveals something very different than what was reported by the County Executive. The letter dated 5 February 2007 seems to have been used to notify those on the Financial Management Committee, other Commissioners and the general public. The letter dated 19 March 2007 which identified five qualified applicants was kept from the committee, commissioners and public. Instead much was made of no qualifying applicants, until it seems the County Executive could manipulate the situation to put her friend in the position with a very good sized raise. Mrs. Roberts was offered the job and distinguished herself as a class act by rejecting the offer and choosing not to be involved with any shenanigans.
So the bottom line is there are five people who are rated at 200 points or higher out of a possible 300 on the evaluation. Five people who met each of the criteria set out for them. Five people who have not been acknowledged. Five qualified people who have not been interviewed. Why?
What will be the next delay used to prevent the implementation of the Financial Management Act? -- Allen Barrett
The "bottom line" is that some people are still smarting over the elections last August and just cannot move on! Sad, indeed.
Anonymous, Are you still posting on here? Is this what you meant by seeing the truth differently than do the "enlightened" ones."?
funny blue...I think we have already learned why yopur head is so blue. Laughing here.
Allen Barrett I cant consider Ms Roberts as a class act for not getting involved, you are forgetting she was first being offered 70,000 but when somebody finally saw what was happenigng and got it down to 58,000 she wouldnt go for it but thats good cos she aint qualified to do the jopb anyways
Instead of being concerned with Mrs Roberts why isn't there a greater outrage toward the county executive who has flat out lied about there being no qualified applicants for the job? It was in the county executive's office that the problem was birthed, nurtured and raised. Allen Barrett
wab
I'd be careful if I were you. Just because you call yourself a reporter (laughing here) doesn't give you the right to go about calling someone a liar. Nor does your self-imposed title make you immune from getting your pants sued off you!
Anonymous April 22, 10:09
Proof is in the pudding. Its in print many times quoting Vanzant as saying there were/are no qualified applicants. Now theres
reports out there showing five or more qualified. Read the quote from Vanzant saying none met the six criteria - surprise!
Anonymous, there you go again, if you're not talking about Mr. Barrett's butt you're talking about getting his pants off (laughing here).
A lie is a false statement that someone knows is false. Therefore the person making the false statement is a liar. For example, if someone on this blog makes the statement, " I am going to stop posting on this blog", then less than a day later post something, that person is a liar. (Laughing here, actually I'm laughing soooo hard I'm about to pee in my pants.)
Any more questions?
Blue head...
The truth is, you just can't stand it when someone is critical of your hero. Haven't you ever heard it said that you shouldn't put all your eggs in one basket? Let's apply that to your apparent hero worship. Don't put all your faith in a mere mortal man. When you do that, it's so often the case that you are disappointed. Think instead of blindly laughing at people who point things out for you.
Anonymous, Why do you get so angry when I try to be like you? I posted "(laughing here)" just like you did. I've very sorry if I did something to upset you. I hope we can still be friends and laugh together. I hope we can. If you still like me please check YES__ or NO__ .
Stupid MORON
Laughable, indeed.
Funny blue
You would make an excellent stand-up comic.
Perhaps wab needs to start an investigation into why you seem so fixated at the anal stage of Freudian development.
Please. Anyone know what happened at the budget meeting today?
To the question Anyone know what happened at the budget meeting today? I understand the Budget Committee is giving away the farm. I hope if you are working you get a 4% raise because this is what I heard the committee gave the county employee. I wonder where all the money is coming from? Look for a tax hike of some kind.
The County General Fund has 3 times as much fund balance as it needs. Giving county employees a 4% pay hike will not break the bank or cause a tax increase. Think before you write.
Ole Hickory
While a 4% pay increase will not break the bank it will certainly cause the piggy to squeal then when coupled with all the other new spending that is proposed there won't even be a bank.
One might question the matter do those working a 35 hour week really deserve a pay raise. I'm not saying some don't deserve raises but I am of the belief that people who deserve pay increases should be able to justify them with something more than I haven't had one since last year. 4% is considerably more than the inflation rate. Allen Barrett
Like I said the General Fund has 3 times as much in fund balance as it needs. The question in my mind is why does the county have such a large fund balance? It would seem the taxpayers have already been fleeced.
All employees need a cost of living raise. I am not against it. They are not paid well to begin with.
Ole Hickory
When you break down the salaries into an hourly rate plus the many holidays, sick benefits and vacation time, compared to general industry and compared to average wages in this county (if you can get a job) the county employees do very well indeed. Add to that, none of them are not exactly killing themselves on their jobs. I've gone into the courthouse and seen make-up being put on, newspapers read and one even taking care of her personal bills at 9 a.m. in the morning. Even saw a couple of women taking a 20 minutes chat on the way to the bathroom.
Please don't anyone come back and say this happens everywhere. Remember these are public employees and should be giving us better value for our tax dollars.
Ole Hickory, I've always enjoyed your writings. However, I have to disagree with you some in that I don't believe the fund balance has exactly 3 times more than it needs, although at the beginning of the new fiscal year it was healthy and this thanks to Charles Greene reorganizing the debt payments. But, think of what the commissioners have voted to spend this year, so that balance has been reduced and its locked us in to commitments from here on out.
Giles County should strive to have an undesignated fund balance of approximately 25% of revuenues. Do the math and you will see. We need only about 2 million in reserves. This is in the General Fund, not the Debt Service Fund - really I dont believe Charles Greene deserves any credit - he is one of many.
Ole Hickory
Mr. Barrett - what would happen if you put your energies into positive collaboration with county officials instead of finger pointing, name calling and attempts to 'catch people doing something wrong' (to paraphrase The One Minute Manager).
How long has it been since you were actually in one of our schools? Have you noticed how filthy they are? Have you noticed how sub-standard they are? Have you noticed that many of the surrounding counties have much more pleasant and often times new schools? When a company is deciding where to relocate, its management will look at the schools, to be sure. What impression will ours make?
You complain there are no jobs - perhaps there would be jobs if we invest in our schools. You complain people can't get jobs - perhaps they could if, as students, they had more of the opportunities offered other students in surrounding counties.
I wonder if you have any clue how our test scores and graduation rates compare with other states? If you look at the states with higher scores, you'll most often (though not always) see higher expenditures per pupil as well as school tax, wheel tax, income tax, etc. Locals complain they are overtaxed - HA! TN has some of the lowest taxes in the nation. If the issue is you don't trust school management and request better accountability for expenditures - then work on THAT - and don't deny the kids.
Just last week I heard a teacher say she is convinced GCHS is filled with mold because she gets pneumonia every year. This is where our kids are 6+ hours a day. I've heard a health care professional recently say one of the itinerant oncologists that comes to Pulaski believes our rate of cancer is higher here than in other areas of Middle Tennessee. Is it possible the school buildings contribute to that in some way?
I have never been to your home, Mr. Barrett, but if you are a smart man (and you certainly portend yourself to be), then you maintain your buildings, your car, and ideally, your relationships. Everything requires maintenance and upkeep, or it soon will require replacement (mates, too!!). Such is true of our schools. We have NOT maintained properly (leaks in the gym roof as one example), and therefore, we're looking at replacement.
We have an obligation to our students. Have you wondered why so many parents home school - or send their children to other schools - or just move out of the county altogether? I suggest it's not just the schools, but the downright negative, backbiting attitude between our county's citizens about supporting what should be one of our small town's greatest assets - our schools.
Please take your ability to comb through facts and use them for POSITIVE, not DIVISIVE outcomes.
You make a very good case as to why the schools should be fixed before a new central office building is built-no has any idea of what this is going to cost the county. Mr. Barrett has stated time after time money was being wasted, he never stated to my knowledge that it should not be used where necessary. Tee Jackson is the reason that the schools are not being attended to not Mr. Barrett. Look at what has transpired he is getting a shiny new office building while the schools need repair, the bus garage is out dated and dangerous, the maintenance department is too small not to mention all the others things that are in dire need of attention in the school system.
Mr. Barrett has only tried to draw attention to unnecessary government spending. How can you be positive about wasted money. How can you trust people when they have continually showed they do not do what they say they will-vote no when they are really going to vote yes(commissioners, school board members).
He may not be the best at smoozing but he is up front and honest and gets the information out there that people need to know.
THANK YOU MR. BARRETT
To anonymous of the May 17, 2007 6:45:00 PM
I find your comments very intriguing and believe they were written with sincerity so I’ll try to respond just as sincerely.
You Ask, “Mr. Barrett - what would happen if you put your energies into positive collaboration with county officials instead of finger pointing, name calling and attempts to 'catch people doing something wrong' (to paraphrase The One Minute Manager).”
The problem is that for the most part county officials are not interested in any collaboration unless it’s someone they perceive as wealthy or powerful. The average citizen has very little opportunity to make any kind of contribution. People have offered free of charge their expertise in accounting matters, computer technologies, even help in the schools and have received a plain “no thanks” for their efforts. I have not sought to “catch people doing something wrong” they have revealed themselves and I have simply pointed it out. Some people simply will not allow you to be nice to them. Have you ever had someone just push in front of you at McDonalds, have you ever been clearly ignored when you were trying to get someone’s attention, have you ever been told no by someone because they didn’t want to be bothered? How did you react? Most people would not be pleased with such behavior. I try to live by the standard of treating others as I would like to be treated but sometimes I resort to treating others the way they are treating me. Basically if you treat me with respect I will do all in my power to double that respect back to you but if you try to mess over me you can count on a strong response.
You ask, “How long has it been since you were actually in one of our schools?”
Last week when I went to GCHS and took pictures of molded ceiling tiles that were being painted over by maintenance workers.
You ask, “Have you noticed how filthy they (schools) are? Have you noticed how sub-standard they are?” Yes I have and I would ask you where were you when I was at school board meetings complaining about the position cuts in the janitorial staff and the reduced funding for building maintenance?
You ask, “Have you noticed that many of the surrounding counties have much more pleasant and often times new schools?” Yes, I have. Are you aware that of all the surrounding counties Giles is the only one with a declining population? Are you aware that there is a new school at Richland and that an entire wing of the older school is being used only for storage? A school does not become obsolete because it is old but because it is not properly maintained. Could it be that some of our schools are not “pleasant” because they have been neglected in order to increase administrative staff and build new administrative buildings?
You state, “You complain there are no jobs - perhaps there would be jobs if we invest in our schools. You complain people can't get jobs - perhaps they could if, as students, they had more of the opportunities offered other students in surrounding counties.”
Over the past several years the school budget has increased at a far greater rate than any other entity of our local government. These increases have averaged well over a million and a half dollars each year. How much would you suggest the school budget increase? How would you suggest and insure the money be spent on those areas you identify as in need? The problem isn’t that money isn’t being provided it’s that it’s not being used for what it was intended.
You ask, “I wonder if you have any clue how our test scores and graduation rates compare with other states?” I am very aware and pleased with the recent increase in student test scores. I unlike, Mr. Jackson, attribute much of that increase to the hard work of the students and teachers not the administrative staff. Another part that has contributed greatly to this increase is the simple fact so much time is being spent teaching the test instead of teaching the subjects. When a student is able to pass the test but can’t write a complete sentence or do simple math what would you consider the problem to be? Yes graduation rates are up a bit but are still far below what the state has designated as desirable.
You state, “If you look at the states with higher scores, you'll most often (though not always) see higher expenditures per pupil as well as school tax, wheel tax, income tax, etc.” Even you admit that the connection of student scores with expenditures per student is very hazy at least. Washington D.C. has one of the highest expenditures per student in the nation; they also have one of the worst graduation rates, and were taken over by the federal government because children were not being educated.
I certainly agree that many of the places where they have higher expenditures per pupil they also have such things as “school tax, wheel tax, income tax, etc.” When questions have been asked of why businesses are moving into Tennessee the overwhelming response has been and continues to be “lower taxes” and no “income tax”. Having lower taxes actually provides people with a much higher standard of living.
You state, “Locals complain they are overtaxed - HA! TN has some of the lowest taxes in the nation.” Giles County has the seventh highest property tax rate in Tennessee. We are one of one on the list of counties that have lost population in Middle Tennessee over the past ten years.
You ask, “If the issue is you don't trust school management and request better accountability for expenditures - then work on THAT - and don't deny the kids.”
What do you think I have been doing? Not once, not one single time have I ever even suggested withholding funds or in anyway depriving kids from a quality education.
You state, “Just last week I heard a teacher say she is convinced GCHS is filled with mold because she gets pneumonia every year. This is where our kids are 6+ hours a day.”
There’s no question about the mold being there, there may be questions about what type mold it is, but no one can honestly deny the mold is there. The solution to the mold problem is they have simply painted over it. As for the pneumonia you might ask some of the students why they’re wearing heavy hoodies in the summer and only tee shirts in the winter? I would suggest that more illness is being experienced from improper controls on the heating and cooling system than even from the mold.
You state, “I have never been to your home, Mr. Barrett, but if you are a smart man (and you certainly portend yourself to be), then you maintain your buildings, your car, and ideally, your relationships. Everything requires maintenance and upkeep, or it soon will require replacement (mates, too!!). Such is true of our schools. We have NOT maintained properly (leaks in the gym roof as one example), and therefore, we're looking at replacement.”
I would be more than happy if you showed up at our door where you would be greeted and welcomed with sincere enthusiasm. I could not agree with you more that attention to maintenance has been severely lacking in recent years. The problem has not been a lack of funding but a lack of priority. A million dollars for an administration building versus a half a million for roof repairs. Sixty thousand for a football coach verses twenty thousand for a math teacher. Seventy thousand for another administrator versus two science teachers. What is really the most important? It’s amazing how many times the need to repair roofs has been used to get more money then have the money go elsewhere.
You ask, “We have an obligation to our students. Have you wondered why so many parents home school - or send their children to other schools - or just move out of the county altogether? I suggest it's not just the schools, but the downright negative, backbiting attitude between our county's citizens about supporting what should be one of our small town's greatest assets - our schools.”
I have spend a good amount of time researching why parents are home schooling, sending their children to private schools and simply moving to different districts or counties. The overwhelming response as to why parents are home schooling is so their children can be properly educated and protected. Not everyone wants their third grader to know how to put a condom on a banana or what homosexuals do to each other.
Many choose private schools for their children again to get a better education. Recent surveys of schools both private and public reveal that private schools have a ration of 80% classroom teachers and 20% administrators. Public schools have only about 50% that are actually classroom teachers. Are you aware that in Giles County the ratio of certified teachers to students is about one to fifteen? Are you aware of any class in Giles County with only fifteen students? Where are all those certified tenured teachers? Look at the administrative role. This is a statement by David Salisbury, director of the Center for Educational Freedom at the CATO Institute; it’s from his Policy Paper titled “Preschool Is No Answer”. “Throughout the 20th century the scores of preschool age children on IQ and kindergarten readiness tests have climbed steadily upward…. It’s not until they move up through grade school and on to high school that their performance declines.” The simple fact is American students excel on international test in fourth grade, far outperforming other countries in reading, math, and science. They beat 26 of 35 countries in reading literacy, including Germany, France, and Italy. The main educational difference between American and Western European children at that age is that most American children have not been subjected to preschool whereas almost all European children have. Now the most interesting part is the more time our kids spend in public school the more their scores go down. By 8th grade American kids are merely average in their international comparison. By 12th grade they have dropped to very near the bottom. Math scores go from the 58th percentile in 4th grade to the 14th percentile in the 12th grade. That seems to make a strong case for the idea that the longer kids go to school the less they know.
I suggest that if there were open, honest debate about these matters there would not be any “backbiting” and the schools would possibly become a real matter of pride. Presently most people seem to not feel apart of the school system but a school victim. Adults for the most part are not welcomed into the schools and must overcome a very negative response in order to monitor a class. I would strongly suggest that instead of seeing the schools as our greatest asset you might consider that it’s the people who are our greatest assets. The students who fill those desks seeking and hoping to learn enough to go on to a good job later. The classroom teachers who are having to struggle with being cursed at by both student and administrators, bored with mindless meetings, worried if they’ll be fired because they didn’t suck up, frustrated trying to teach uninterested kids and kids who are interested but can’t focus because of the distractions created by those uninterested, trying to compete for the affection of students by requiring the best from them while others are showing them R rated movies. I liken classroom teachers to combat soldiers they are down in the trenches getting the job done while most of the credit and pay is going to those safe behind their desks. Our real assets are the kitchen workers and custodial staff, the bus drivers, maintenance people and mechanics who are forced to do more and more with less and less while they watch the waste and excesses of administrators.
You state, “Please take your ability to comb through facts and use them for POSITIVE, not DIVISIVE outcomes.” This is certainly good advice if you can tell me how to do it when those in power are in denial of the facts and have no integrity or desire to seek those facts? Allen Barrett
wab
Let me speak with sincerity when I echo what the writer said about your using your energies on positive things rather than in finger-pointing and blaming. Add to that a dose of humility, and you are on your way.
You "exposed" yourself in the paragraph where you were talking negatively about "those in power" and showed your arrogance (once again) by suggesting that they are in denial of facts and have no integrity. Shame on you again.
Let me make a suggestion if I may. Why don't you get a job and start paying income taxes like the rest of us? That kind of input could only help the county.
A-nag-u-must, How is it you know so much about wab? I know you have shared numerous times the idea that you have paychic power that allow you to read the minds of others but I didn't realize you could read federal income tax returns. I believe if you will get someone to read what wab posted to someone else he didn't say "those in power" have no integrity he said "they have no integrity or desire to seek those facts". Now I'm sure you didn't intend to mislead or be untruthful it was probably something someone told you or you overheard. Seems that's how you get all your information.
I don't know much about wab but his comments certainly are eye opening experiences for those who read them with an open mind. I wonder why it is that your only comment was about the last line of his post? What do you have to say about the rest of those responses are haven't you been told what to think yet?
I don't know if any of you care about this but why does Giles County only have 3 full time paramedics for nine available slots? Why in last year has there been such a turn over? Why when these paramedics that live in this county and worked for what they where paid and never complained would they leave? I worry for my family and friends when they do need an emergency personnel. Don't let the powers that be fool I don't believe it has to do with money but with how the county executor allows that place to be run. Just wondering how they can fix the budget when they can't even fix the county agencys
WE WILL NOT SEE ANY SIGNIFICANT IMPROVEMENT IN OUR SCHOOL SYSTEM UNTIL WE PLACE RESTRICTIONS ON WHO CAN RUN FOR SCHOOL BOARD SEATS. MEMBERS OF THE SCHOOL BOARD SHOULD NOT HAVE ANY CLOSE RELATIVES WORKING IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM. MOST OF OUR CURRENT BOARD HAS A COMFLICT OF INTEREST AND CANNOT RENDER AN OBJECTIVE DECISION. WE WILL NOT IMPROVE OUR EDUCATION SYSTEM UNTIL THIS SITUATION IS CORRECTED.
Anonymous, don't you think for one moment that Allen Barrett don't pay income tax, city and county property tax, and every other tax that can be thought of. Your stupidity really shows. You really don't know a da--
thing about Allen Barrett. You just wish you did.
I know how narcissistic and arrogant he is. I just didn't think he had a "real" job. I thought he was now a reporter? If so, is it a paid position? I ask a legitimate question and you call me stupid. Let me ask YOU a question. Why are you so defending of the great one?
To un-smart bart..
Yes, he did say they have no integrity OR desire to seek facts. You even quoted him. Hilarious.
Anonymous May 19, 1:33 p.m.
You hit the nail on the head, there is a problem with the lack of management at the ambulance service. Ask some of the folks who work there.
Anonymous May 20, 1:57 p.m.
Are you not out of order? What business is it of yours whether or not Mr Barrett is paid for his work. Perhaps he does it volunteer in order to keep the people in this county informed. Now what do you do for your volunteer community work?
There is a huge problem at the ambulance service but no one seems to no or care what is going on over there! Seems to me that someone needs to clean house from the top. Does anyone know why there has been such a mass exodus of paramedics? Does county executor not think there is a problem when in last 6 months alone 8 full time paramedics have left? Don't be fool was never about money.! Ask the folks that work that won't happen I have heard that the director has told the remaining employees not to talk to anyone about anything that happens over there or they would have no job! And at fifteen dollars an hour for part time paramedics and @ least 2 part time paramedics needed to fill open slots on all 3 of the 24 hour shifts that has to add up to some heavy urdens for the citizens and the budget in this county. So the way I see it that is one more negative effect on this county budget but maybe I am wrong.
Why are the citizens of Giles Cty not questioning why those paramedics are leaving in droves? Are the people not worried what will happen when they call 911 and need a paramedic to give them a life saving drug or a shock when there heart stops. Why in last 3 years has turn over rate been so high? I am asking again how can they fix the budget when the can not control the people that work for them?? Does anyone know the answer to any of these questions?
A while back it was reported in the paper about Flacy warning Roy Griggs about the overtime that was being paid making $22 hr. We never know how much the salries are going over budget. This new financial act is supposed to produce a monthly budget line item (read the code) and thats one of the reasons the dept heads didnt want the act to pass. I hear many problems at ambulance dept and Griggs is the problem. Cant manage worth a flip and remember Vanzant was the one who got rid of the former ambulance manager. Pitiful.
I find it very interesting that wab wrote a well researched near book on the blog thread about a matter that should be of great interest to us all and the only response that he has gotten has been a two bit criticism
by his arch critic about one line from the whole statement. I'd be very interested in reading some other responses to his statement of may 18, 2007.
To anonymous..
What business is it of his or mine if a restaurant decides to close?
I,m glad to see that some people are finally seeing the problem with this county government.
As one above stated, start cleaning from the TOP.
With the first election of Mrs. Vanzant is where the problems started.
So If you really mean what you say and want to see things get better here in Giles County, stand up and be counted. Say what you know to your friends and associates at meeting, in church, on the street any where you see them.
GET RID OF VANZANT.
Then and only then will thing start to improve. Many warning have been told, but no one has listened. Wake up Giles County.
Can the County Commission investigate the County Executive on matters' like Congress can on the President?
If so, why doesn't one of them make a motion on that at the next meeting and get going?
NO BALLS!
I think the "encounter group" is doing a sufficient job in trying to discredit and humiliate Mrs. Vanzant, so why should the commission demand her head on a platter?
The election results are in. Janet won and, apparently, your horse lost. Get over it. If you aren't happy with the county mayor, run someone against her next election. Again, that's the democratic process.
Mr. Barrett, perhaps you are so informed you would tell us which school had janitorial cuts. I don't believe you will find any. In fact, there have been part time positions added to schools. The schools were given the choice of a part time office assistant or a part time custodian. Not all schools wanted custodians. There have been no cuts in custodians. Get you facts right before putting them on here. Once again you are not telling the facts, I am not saying you are lieing just not correctly informed yourself. Don't tell these things unless you KNOW FOR A FACT. You are always saying things that are not true. Whoever is informing you must not have all the facts themselves.
oh wab.....
Could it be that you may at times be lacking in knowledge as well? And you claim I am the only one who takes you to task. Looks like (as I've said before) I am not the only one who sees through all this. Not everyone is impressed with your gems of intelligence and wisdom.
To anonymous of 29 May 6:27 post. Pick any school go there and ask the custodial staff what changes they have experienced in the past five years, ask has their work load increased and if there are the same number of custodians on staff now as in the past five years, then go to the budget and check item 72610 166 for the past five years then tell me how wrong I am about the custodial staff. This years’ budget is the first significant proposed increase and there are no guarantees that will be dispensed as proposed.
Do you not see that you answered your own question about possible cuts in the custodial staff? With full time positions being changed to part time and some being changed to office assistants? Do you know any office assistants that are cleaning the restrooms? Gee, does it seem possible that there is a connection between schools getting more office assistants than custodians and the level of cleanliness of that school. In some cases the custodian is doing double the work they did just a couple of years ago.
You say I am “always saying things that are not true”. I would ask you to please give some examples, since there are so many, as for this example you revealed the truth in what I said with your own words.
Allen Barrett
If the 2007-8 budget shows $391,500 and the 2006-7 budget has $395,105, we do have a slight decrease is WHAT THE SCHOOL SYSTEM put in their account 166 custodial! If you don't like what's there, tell Jackson & the board to put more money in it for the janitors. Custodial pay is up 11.8% since 2003-4 - just about a net zero change after inflation! Compare that to the increase of over $1 million - (over 50%!) - FOR ADMINISTRATION!!!
The 2007-8 $8660 budget increase in teacher salaries is zero percent of the $11.9 million total teaching salaries. Look at the administrative salary increases, and see if you can find something sensible to say.
Mr. Barrett, please read my comments before about the custodians. I said nothing about replacing custodians with office assistants. I said the school had choices of an EXTRA part time custodian or a part time assitant. There were no cuts, nor has there been. I don't know who told you otherwise but that IS NOT THE TRUTH. There have not been any changes. Please check with someone who knows. You are always telling half truths and people who read this take your word as gospel. IT IS NOT. TEll me which school has lost positions and I can tell you where you are wrong.
If you read the 9:58 entry, you will find the $3605 cut in 2007-8 vs. 2006-7! It's an insignificant amount of money, placed there to create an illusion of deep cost cutting. It is also a hot button excuse for increased spending by budget amendment!
If Jackson and the board produced a meaningful statement with comparisons of financial revenues and expenditures, you might know that, plus a lot of other highly irregular irregularities.
Read the cuts section of changes in their budget package. Cutting some educational bone is real hard cutting! You will not see the increases in Principals (7%), supervision & administrators (8%), and assistants (5%). Yes, there were reductions in other misc. administrative salaries, but the related total is up $106,000 (4%) ... in a category that has increased over 50% since 2003-4.
The illusion is having to cut expenses in bone critical areas, plus no raises for teachers, in a budget that only demands $838,000 in new property taxes!
Budget reality is a modest $226,000 increase to the prior year spending spree of $2.4 million (vs. its preceding year). Of that $2.4 million, $1.4 was planned to be withdrawn from reserves, not recurring revenue - IN GOOD ECONOMIC TIMES! The 2007-8 spending is based on taking another $650,000 from reserves (IN GOOD TIMES)! Add to it the fact that revenue and matching funds are grossly understated ($$$MILLIONS) as presented in the 2007-8 budget!
That brings us back to the top of this note and back to the other statements made about runaway spending built upon deception and fraud! The 2007-8 school budget should be summarily dismissed along with anyone who knowingly contributed deceptive information to it.
The objective is three men on a shovel. The protocol leaves no room for learning, innovation, or productivity. The icon is an ivory tower overlooking a shabby little garage surrounded by school busses waiting to get fixed. Soon we'll be buying rain coats for class room attire. On the other hand, better news - The game is over.
To Anonymous of 31 May 10pm post.
I wonder if you bothered to read my response to you after your initial spat of anger. Maybe I don’t understand the concept as you stated it, “I said the school had choices of an EXTRA part time custodian or a part time assitant”. It seems that if a school administrator chose another office assistant instead of a custodian that would mean less help in the custodial department and more in the office. You might spend some time reading the post explaining item 166 in the budget. Again I ask, “Pick any school go there and ask the custodial staff what changes they have experienced in the past five years, ask has their work load increased and if there are the same number of custodians on staff now as in the past five years, then go to the budget and check item 72610 166 for the past five years then tell me how wrong I am about the custodial staff and the cuts. You state with firm authority, “There were no cuts, nor has there been. I don't know who told you otherwise but that IS NOT THE TRUTH. There have not been any changes. Please check with someone who knows.” I suggest that those who would know best would be those doing the work, I challenge you to ask the custodial staff, has their workload increased and do they have more money in their pockets for that extra work? You state, “You are always telling half truths and people who read this take your word as gospel. IT IS NOT.” I have certainly never claimed that my word was gospel but I have certainly tried to be honest and candid about myself, what I believe and what I write, that is why you don’t have to wonder who wrote the things that got you so stirred up. Now, I repeat, please give me some examples of my untruthful statements, since you claim there are so many it shouldn’t be very difficult. As for this example again you revealed the truth in what I said with your own words.
You state, “TEll me which school has lost positions and I can tell you where you are wrong.” This is not simply about “lost positions” but about increased workloads, part-time custodians where full-time are needed. You only need to walk through any school, make sure you bring your jacket, to see that schools are dirty not so much now that school is out but when students are present and adequate custodial staff isn’t. Allen Barrett
Mr. Barrett, if the school population is declining why would the custodians have bigger work loads, there are the SAME number of custodians? The custodians themselves have changed but not the number. The administrators chose assistants because of the added work load. The federal government as usual has added more paper work to administrators and their staff. The attendance program itself should have a full time person in each school. The program that the schools are REQUIRED to use has to be worked on daily and very seldom does it work correctly. Mr. Barrett, I have never called you a liar. You just seem to get your facts wrong from someone else. You are getting your information from disgruntled folks. I know one person you are getting information from and that person is a trouble maker. I know a couple who are very unhappy about everything in their life and they are trying to make trouble. You need to make sure that you are getting facts, that is all I ask. If you ask any employee in the system they will tell you that their work load has increased and that they need help and more pay. I don't know many who don't. One thing I am sure of, the more we work the more that is asked of us. Oh, one example you said that look at the budget, well I don't care what the budget says, there have been no cuts in custodians, only part time additions. That is a fact, at least for the last ten years. there may have been budget cuts but no personell cuts.
wab...
I have tried on several occasions to help you with your misunderstandings. And now, you can see that I am not alone in this endeavor. The disgruntled folks (aka whine gang) apparently have given you the resolve to continue stirring up distrust and trouble.
Why don't you get a real job?
You consistently miss the point, but that is your objective. As long as you can side track others, you feel secure in your scam. I hope someone does pull off the lid & end the scam
To Anonymous of 1 June 2007 6:47 AM
I don’t know why it is so difficult for you to understand such a simple thing as the custodial mess. If the budget is cut for custodial personnel as it is in this present budget please tell me did some custodian have their pay cut or did the position that was changed to a part time job allow the cut to take place? Surely you will agree that a part time custodian is not the same as a full time one. If formerly the custodian was a full time (40 hours a week) position and is now a part time (less than 40 hours a week) position even you must admit than anything less than forty hours would have to be a cut from forty. As you stated, “well I don't care what the budget says” is very obvious but it is the budget that is supposed to tell us what is happening with the money given to schools. You ask, “if the school population is declining why would the custodians have bigger work loads”. With these kinds of questions and statements I’m beginning to believe you must be in school administration. Think a moment, custodians don’t clean students they clean spaces used by students. The square footage of the building is not reduced; the outside grass the custodians cut doesn’t get smaller even when the students are not present. One full time custodian with one part time helper is just not the same as two full time custodians. Please just ask the custodians, I’m sure they will be glad to tell you what they do each day. You state, “Mr. Barrett, I have never called you a liar”. I agree you did not specifically call me a liar but you did by framing your statement around “You are always saying things that are not true”. That certainly was an incredible leap of presumption on your part. Finally you state, “there have been no cuts in custodians, only part time additions. That is a fact, at least for the last ten years. there may have been budget cuts but no personell cuts”. I’ll give you one example, simply ask Mr. Holt if his school has had the same number of custodians during the past ten years, and then ask how many custodians were added to his staff after the new addition was completed. Allen Barrett
Mr. Barrett, listen carefully, the custodians have not been cut, they have added part time not replaced with part-time. What part of that don't you understand. There have been no cuts on FULL TIME custodians. Most of the custodians do not cut their grass. The grass is cut by contractors. As far as square feet you are right that has not changed. Mr. Holt did not have additional custodians added for the square feet addition you are right there. He has the same amount of custodians. The only custodial change in the last ten years was that Richland School went from contracted to full time employees. I think that RES had one more custodian to being with but that was changed by one after they started, so I am wrong there. As far as the budget I can't explain why it would be less unless the part time custodians are paid out of a different line item, I am not privy to that. ONCE AGAIN THERE WERE NO CUTS IN FULL TIME CUSTODIANS ONLY THE "ADDITION" OF PART TIME" NOT THE DELETION OF FULL TIME. Mr. Holt had custodians retire and were replaced with others. They did have a spouse of the old custodians that came in but that was as a sub or maybe off clock, they were not paid to help out. If Pulaski Elementary needed custodial help so bad why did they elect a part time office assistant?
To Anonymous of the June 01, 2007 10:11PM post
I appreciate your patience with me! You state, “Mr. Barrett, listen carefully, the custodians have not been cut, they have added part time not replaced with part-time. What part of that don't you understand.” Well, this is the part I don’t understand, “I think RES had one more custodian to being with but that was changed by one after they started, so I am wrong there. As far as the budget I can't explain why it would be less unless the part time custodians are paid out of a different line item, I am not privy to that. ONCE AGAIN THERE WERE NO CUTS IN FULL TIME CUSTODIANS ONLY THE "ADDITION" OF PART TIME" NOT THE DELETION OF FULL TIME.” Perhaps when you reconcile these two parts of your statement, “RES had one more custodian to being with but that was changed by one after they started, so I am wrong there” with “ONCE AGAIN THERE WERE NO CUTS IN FULL TIME CUSTODIANS ONLY THE "ADDITION" OF PART TIME" NOT THE DELETION OF FULL TIME,” I would be better able to understand.
If you do not understand how to read a budget how can you possibly try to tutor anyone else in that activity. Having attended school many years ago I still remember being taught in eighth grade the rudiments of a budget, spend more than you take in, trouble will ensue; spend less one year than the last it has to come from someone. Please ask one of your co-workers to explain for you that the line item for custodians shows less this year than last. Since it is less where did the “cut” come from? Allen Barrett
wab...
There you go again with the condescension. You smart off to the writer by asking him/her to get a co-worker to explain a line item. Shame on you. That is so unbecoming of a "man of God" Sorry to have to keep reminding you, but you did accept that higher calling.
924 - do you think your "writer" was doing anything other than spreading false information, giving false witness, all in the name of corruption! Of course yoou know - you're one & the same idiot!
9:24 thanks for the help. Mr. Barrett, once again let me explain. I will admit to saying it wrong. Richland Elementary started out with an EXTRA custodian. They were all new, had never worked for the school system before. Once the school sytem got going one of the custodians quit, since they had as many custodians as the larger schools it was decided that they did not need that many. So in a way there was a cut there, I will apolgize for that but tell another instance. As to the budget, I don't need a co-worker, whatever you mean by that, to explain line items to me. I realize that if the amount is smaller there is less money there, at the same time there may have been extra money there in the prior years, I think that Mr. Tee said he had made budget cuts. I am sure that the budget has to be padded to a certain extent. We all know that in mid year that if the school system runs out of money there are not going to be many people loaning the school system money.
2:25, I don't know who you are but obviously you are not a very nice person saying things about people you do not know. A civil person would not go around calling people idiots. As to the one and the same comment, YOU ARE TELLING FALSE INFORMATION. You must be able to see more than I do out of the anonymous name.
To anonymous of 2 June 9:24 post.
It certainly is easy to see why Bad Bart refers to you as a-nag-u-must a nag you are. I have to ask myself why even bother trying to reason with one so unreasonable but I must try.
You state in your very contemptuous, mocking post, “There you go again with the condescension. You smart off to the writer by asking him/her to get a co-worker to explain a line item. Shame on you”. I was not being condescending to the writer I simply made a suggestion based on their two statements from 1 June 6:47am and 10:11pm where they stated, “Oh, one example you said that look at the budget, well I don't care what the budget says, there have been no cuts in custodians, only part time additions. As far as the budget I can't explain why it would be less unless the part time custodians are paid out of a different line item, I am not privy to that.”
You state in even more contemptible mocking, “That is so unbecoming of a "man of God" Sorry to have to keep reminding you, but you did accept that higher calling.” Sorry to disappoint you but becoming a minister did not mean I stop being a man, that I stop being involved in my community or that I suddenly became perfect. Perhaps you should ask your minister, if you have one, if they gave up those things. While you are at it you might also ask what he would think of someone who carried tales, spread unfounded rumors, made up lies and told them as truths and did all this while staying hidden in the shadows as “anonymous”. You see as a man and especially as a Christian and as a minister I take responsibility for what I say and do. I do not whisper about others and I apply my name to what I write. I value my integrity and will not devalue it for the convenience of a lie. If I am proven wrong I will apologize and seek forgiveness. I try to treat others better that they treat me but I will not be a doormat for anyone. You might try developing some of those traits you’d be amazed at how much better you would feel. Allen Barrett
To Anonymous of the 4:59 post.
I’m sorry but we seem to be getting no where with this discussion. As long as you refuse to read and accept the budget items as listed and will not speak with the custodians you will not see the cut in custodian funds or custodian services. As long as I see the budget as proof of a cut in funds and listen to custodians explain their increased work loads I will not be able to agree with you so I’ll leave it at that. Thanks for the interaction. Allen Barrett
459 look & listen - Lots in here that you cant sluff off.
Mr. j made cuts in things he knows are vitals - no increase in teachhing but nice fat globs in administraters that he aint speaking about.
He sure padded the budget, too. trouble is, it aint a budget anymore when its a big fat official document to get $29 million from my property tax. It's tyhe biggest cash spending request in the county. Somebody is in a heap of trouble
Looks to me litke the Titanic - lot of folks like you out here playin in the band instead of heading for a life saver.
WAB, it is easy for you to post your name. Some people CANNOT dare do that. I happen to like my job. And no, I am not a custodian, but like everyone else in the sytem have had extra duties added to my job and am severely overworked. I work over every day but overtime pay is non-existant. You still have not said which school is overworked or why Mr. Holt, if he needed a custodian so bad, choice office help. He had the same choice as the rest of the schools. I am not saying that there do not need to be more custodians I am saying that with the exception (I did admit that I forgot the RES custodian) of RES there have been not cuts. And by the way, RES was never intended to have that many custodians. I have spoken to the custodians and I KNOW THEY ARE OVERWORKED. As to why the budget reflects a cut in that line item, I don't know, ask the bookkeeper or Mr. Tee, I don't look at the budget. I don't think that you will get anyone who works for the school system to tell you they have spare time.
WAB? Did I just read where you called someone unreasonable? Man, is that funny! You are one of the most unreasonable man I have ever run across.
By the way, how did the assault charges go against Mr. Cagle?
I did not mean to say which school was overworked, I meant which school has had custodians cut. With the exception of Richland Elementary,I added my mistake there. Maybe the reason people get nowhere with you as you said is because you won't admit your errors in what you say. I have admitted mine.
Sounds like someone owes you an apology of sorts. Mr. J cut sub teachers, bus drivers, custodial, and textbook FUNDING in his budget to create a crisis called, "The school can't run because we don't have money for those things"! He didn't tell anyone about the big funding increases for principals, administraters, assistants, clerks. Maybe you're the starvin baby held out by the drunk begging for more money to buy wine with!
They increased funding & spending almost $5million in the last 2 years. How much did you get? Instead of cleaning up after half a dozen administraters you got 12 to pick up after! Teachers got a room full of wild indians, they have to keep all the helpers busy, plus answer to more and more bosses who think they own this carnavel. No time to teach
Barrett isn't your enemy - hes the only one with the guts to fight for you! Mam, youre on a runaway merrygoround!
Theres lots of stuff in here. Forget what youre told & look for the real answers.
As long as you look pitiful, cry loud when pinched, & hold that cup out for the nice people to throw money - youre gonna be pitiful, pinched, & fillin the pocket of the drunk who pops it to you.
Mr. J did cut text book budget which is ridiculous, but I not seen or heard anything about bus drivers being cut, there again maybe the budget but not actual drivers. As far as subs, I'm sure that as long as personell is absent there will be subs, maybe that is how employees could screw the budget up make sure you are absent. I would assume that whatever was budget for subs was not used so they cut that. I'm sure that he is cutting whatever he can to pay for furnishing the new castle since I am sure there won't be the usual Army Surplus. The bottom line is no matter who is over worked or cut the Budget keeps getting bigger and bigger and taxes get higher and higher. If you are a school employee I'm sure your salary does not go up as fast as the property taxes do.
wab..
I have asked myself that same question when I am responding to you. Why would I bother trying to reason with an unreasonable man? I have tried on numerous occasions to help you with your misunderstandings, and that has proven futile. I have tried to point out your arrogance and condescending attitude toward those you deem intellectually inferior to you. You fail to see that as well. I even suggested that someone closest to you pull you aside and give you a bit of constructive criticism along those lines. Apparently, nobody did.
And you have the audacity to suggest that I emulate some of those "finer" traits found in you. Oh please, give me a break!
Regarding your acceptance of a higher calling, you suggest that I ask my minister some questions, IF I have one. You bet I have a minister who truly is a man of God. Perhaps you should try developing some of his traits. You might be "amazed" at how much better people would feel about you!
WAB you assume you are talking to one person, you are not, I know that I have replied a couple of times but I am not the only one. You are bunching several people together apparently. When you say that you are trying to reason with an unreasonable person, that is exactly what people are saying to you.
301 - & 29 WAB is being very kind to call a pair of certified nuts unreasonable. Who in the world would take either one of you seriously?
Who in the world would call WAB reasonable. Has anyone but me noticed that he is never wrong, has never admitted to a mistake, no matter what the argument he is always right and always has the fact right no matter what the prool
And that's exactly what people are saying about him as well! Laughable.
To the Dufus twins 604 & 618.
If you could read you might get curious.
If you got curious you'd either get your hand caught in the cookie jar or go see what's on the other side of the road.
I'm sure you know the cookie jars is empty.
Therefore I'm sure you'd put the leash on your pet possum & go see what's beyond the yellow line.
WAB, one last time, call the schools, find out if they have had custodians cut from their schools. Then write back with your answer. You other folks, stop saying ugly things about people. People can disagree without calling names.
WAB, it just occured to me that there have been about 4 or 5 custodians retire and one pass away. They would have been at top pay and would have been replaced with new custodians at lower pay. I don't know how much the budget was cut but that would explain over $10,000.
wab..
Does the above post at least clear up that misunderstanding for you?
I can only go on information that is told me by those directly involved and by what the budget reflects. I can understand your reluctance in trusting the budget but it is the only written record. It seems we each see the matter differently and can't change at this point, because we see things different don't make one wrong and one right only different. Allen Barrett
623/426 If you don't know how much a budget was cut, you will not know how much was added, or moved from area to another, either. You have no clue as to what is being done to the citizens of Giles County!
You, who have not even taken the time to look at their budgets, ignore the facts presented by someone who has budget copies, read them, and has a wealth of information taken from them. If participating makes someone a participant, your skill of ignoring makes you truly ignorant.
9:53 I don't believe that I said I had never seen the budget. I do not own a copy but I have seen one and looked at it. I pay the same property tax as the rest of the county property owners. I am not ignorant nor do I like being called so. I realize that any budget is not perfect and some expenses cannot be predicted as far ahead as these have to be. For instance, who predicted in April of last year what the gas prices would do. It seems that anyone who disagrees with Barrett and his cohorts is ignorant. Okay, I cry uncle, because you folks cannot be reasoned with.
Ignorant is not a bad word, we all are ignorant about somethings. When we find out we don't know a thing that we should the usual reaction is to learn all we can so ignorant doesn't become stupid. It's stupid that is really a bad word because it belongs to a person who may be ignorant about a thing and is perfectly content to remain ignorant.
I believe what you said about the budget was that you didn't care about the budget. If that was written by a different anonymous I apologize sometimes they get mixed up.
The example you used is a clear example of how the howl is raised and the money gotten is spent elsewhere, that's why for three years money has been given for roofs and still every roof needs repair. Fuel was contracted for long before the spike in prices, again simply look at the proposed budget and you'll see that fuel is one of those items that has been cut and moved into administration.
I have no problem with people who disagree with me, I just get frustrated when they refuse to accept written statements as evidence one way or the other and try to replace reason and facts with ugly name calling.
I put my name on what I write so there will be no confusion as to who wrote it that is all I can be responsible for. Allen Barrett
wab..
I don't think people are as much refusing to accept truth as they are unwilling to allow your arrogance and name-calling to go unchallenged. Just because someone doesn't agree with you does not give you the right to call them names and "suggest" their ignorance or lack of knowledge.
To a-nag-u-must, check the thread parking on the square is solved and ditto it for this thread.
829 You're a peacock with no feathers & red rear end. Go save the world & drown yourself.
829 You're a peacock with no feathers & red rear end. Go save the world & drown yourself.
bart...
Have you decided to become a comic? Sounds like it.
To a-nag-u-must, I couldn't even begin to compete with you in the humor department. Everything you say brings out the belly laughs.
Bart......
If that's true and you take what I say as humor, then why do you appear so angry much of the time? Uh....are we seeing manifestations of the multi-personality disorder raising its ugly head?
To a-nag-u-must, I would have written sooner but I couldn't stop laughing at your stupid statement. Don't you realize that all my personalities have beautiful heads.
I'm still waiting on your response to the manifestations and why you come across as so angry at times. I'll be checking my DSM-IV while I'm waiting. There has to be more going on in your head beides paranoid delusional. I'm not sure hero worship syndrome is in it, but I'll certainly check.
Your incessant laughing suggests that you may be having epidsodes of mania.
Am I consistent with what your psychiatrist is telling you? I'll bet I'm close.
You can wait on forever from me as 1 - I was never angry when I wrote my comment and 2 - You are confusing yourself on the writers.
I never bother getting angry and especially wouldn't waste my engery in getting angry responding to you "baiters" on this blog. As I said, wait on......
To anonymous...
Wrong. I was writing that to bart in an attempt to help him with his mental problems. Had you read the posts, you would have known that.
Let me see if I understand your definition of "baiters" here. I take it to mean anyone who gets on this blog calling elected officials names and accusing them of all manner of vice in an attempt to draw them into debate. Would that be a fair interpretation? I think so.
But these individuals are too mature for that, so it AIN'T gonna work.
No. I was thinking in terms of the people representing/supporting the elected officials who are not doing a satisfactory job as being the baiters on this blog.
I suppose it's just a matter of interpretation. I see it just the opposite.
If the elected officials did their jobs (and I'm not lumping them all in this statement) according to the laws and did not try to keep things from the public (example:recent closed meeting of ambulance committee that was held a few days ago and not announced to full commission or the public) people would have no reason to question, but thats not the way it has been happening here for decades. Why dont you give us a response about that closed ambulance meeting and why you think that was ok?
If they have been doing it like that for decades, why is that the malcontents suddenly want to point fingers and expose? Surely, someone would have said something before now.
Heck, there must be a lot of malcontents around this place, or could it be the same writer!
You must have forgotten, I requested a response about that 'closed' ambulance meeting as an examnple of what the public doesnt like, or was that ok in your book?
No, the malcontents are a small group of sore losers (or their supporters) who think they know best how to run things and who just can't stand it that they lack the voter constituency to achieve power. That is it in a nutshell.
June 11, 5:31 PM
You seem to be mixing your responses up. However, we will forgive you. In the meantime, it would be easy enough to get from the election office the names of everyone who ran for office but didnt make it for one reason or another. You must be including in those people Mr. Gordon. That would give us who you are referring to as "malcontents" but dont have the backbone to list. Could you come up with an alternative to "malcontents"? You sound like someone with limited vocabulary Dear.
Anonymous...
Wrong once again! This is incredible.
I have nothing but the utmost respect for Glen Gordon, so your argument is ridiculous. He was gracious in defeat and, to my knowledge, has never whined or cried foul as the manner of some has consistently been. Therefore, I would hardly refer to Mr. Gordon as a malcontent. Further, I could not imagine him aligning himself with that little group.
As has been stated before, if you want to know who the malcontents are, just ask around town. I don't need to call them by name, because most everyone knows who they are. You know them as well, don't you?
I think the word "malcontent" (noun) is very fitting. Why would I want to re-invent the wheel?
In closing, let me say this: Please don't be a jackanapes!
Does anyone know if Jackie Steuble is still in town?
Its incredible that you are able to single out unsuccessful candidates and eliminate them from your list of malcontents after your previous blanket statement. Now that you have removed Mr. Gordon, if I submit to you the full list, one by one, will you remove names so that we can know who you refer to as the "malcontents group"? Seems a long and lengthy way to get to what you are not bold enough to answer. You sign as anonymoys so why are you still too chicken to make a clear statement? Thank you dear.
anonymous...
You sign as anonymous as well, but that's ok, isn't it?
Go ahead and submit your list if that will make you feel better. But, as I've said, all you have to do to know who is behind this is ask around town. Now that would be a list I would be interested in your posting for all to see.
Hi Sugar
I only sign as anonymous as I was following you. When you gather enough guts to sign your real name then I'll do the same with bells on. You are the one who keeps on about a malcontent group and brought it up in the first place. In your posting above you want ME to ask around town who the group is when you claim to already know. What did your last slave die of? Are you saying this so called "group" are the folks who ran in the last election but lost, excluding Mr. Gordon? Boy, are you wrong! You are forgetting the mass of voters out there. By the way, are you AJ?
And you are the one who is so interested in my signing my name.
I know of an A.J. who runs a market out near Anthony Hill. Is that who you are referring to?
You also are the one who brough up Glen Gordon's name. Interesting.
As for the mass of voters, it appears that they didn't want certain people "in charge" last August. The voters have spoken, so why don't you give it up til next election? I wasn't totally pleased with the results myself, but I'm not running around here with my hair on fire attempting to ruin the names of those I didn't vote for.
Why doesn't anyone really care what happens at that ambulance service do ya'll not think that someone you care about will need them? You now have 2 full time paramedics left working in this county and 7 open slots whats going to happen when one of you needs the services that these paramedics provide well lets see they aren't going to be there cause one in this county thinks this is problem but to me it is a serious problem and makes me nervous to think what is going to happen if someone is not accountable. Part time paramedics the ones that they can keep over there have to be makin overtime there is no way they can't be. No Mr Gordon didn't win maybe things would be better but then again maybe not so why a closed ambulance meeting what do they not want us the public to know, do any of you have answers to any of my questions?
Yes, some people and some commissioners are concerned and care. However, the problems at the ambulance service are being denied by Griggs, Vanzant and others who are responsible for the operations of that service. I realize the June 25 meeting of the commissioners is a special called meeting but surely some of the commissioners could bring this matter up under New Business. Yes, I'm very concerned. We could lose some lives over not being fully staffed not to mention potential lawsuits (more?). What are the problems, it cant be the houry rate because I heard we pay more than surrounding counties.
Griggs and Vanzant deny all this why any one with any business sense would no that is not just a money ar benefit issue over. First of most of those that left recently had longevity so they had more reasons to leave then just that. How can no one else in this county care I as a tax payer have great worry over this. Why does John Q Public not have any idea of whatis going on when do you think that they are going to fix this.
The best thing that could happen to the Giles Ambulance service is that it be SOLD to a private company . THEY know how to run a business , make a profit and provide service that meets a minimum standard, which is more than those who are running the service right now seem able to do. They write off HUNDREDS of thou$and$ every year due to not collecting what is due to them.The service is a huge drainhole in the County budget bucket. Go to an Ambulance Committee meeting sometime and just watch the mutters and shuffling when the question "What did we lo$e this time " gets asked (ever so politely of course ).
We cant blame the expert medical folks for leaving. Having to cope with incompetent management too is just too much for them to put up with .
Snodley
Don't ever foresee Vanzant letting that be sold and don't foresee Griggs being made to step down. I do not blame one of those folks for getting out of there but they are now being made the villians when they did nothing wrong but speak up against what was wrong!!!! I am worried if anyone I know has a car wreck will we have personnel that are trained to treat us come or will we be waiting on an ambulance to come from some surrounding county?? Can Griggs not take control what is going on at that place or is he part of the problem?
What is the problem over at that place does any one know for sure? Why are there only 2 full time paramedics there isn't he asking for money to hire more people? I was also told that they are not paying overtime to the part timers? Why have so many people left I live and work in this county and had no clue any of this was going on!!! Your right I am very concern if this case!!!
According to WKSR Jody Roberts has withdrawn her application.
Thy kingdom come, thy will be done?
What will happen to the school budgeteers? Thy kingdom come, thy kingdom go? & that's that?
The finance committee did their re-vote this morning to appoint the new finance director and very conveniently refused to re-vote their other two secret ballots. Commissioner Howell moved to re-do all their secret votes and apologized for not catching the violation before. No need to apologize Mrs. Howell you were the only one who actually made an effort to do the right thing.
Perhaps good ole boy Commissioner Jackson summed up the whole process best when responding to the matter of violating state law he stated, "what are they gonna do put us in jail". That certainly does a lot to comply with the new code of ethics the county recently adopted.
The 2nd principle is "Actively promote public confidence in county government". The 5th Principle in this code is, "Maintain a positive image to pass constant public scrutiny". The 10th principle is, "Faithfully comply with all laws and regulations applicable to the county and impartially apply them to everyone".
The amazing thing is each of these were clearly violated this morning along with a couple more that is at least questionable. O' Well what can you expect from a backwoods bozo just trying to keep his family employed. Allen Barrett
wab....
Isn't that a little dangerous calling one of the commissioners a backyard (adjective) bozo (noun)? Or, were you merely describing his behavior? Laughable, as usual.
To anonymous of the 5:51 post,
Try to get someone to read the post for you again and pay attention this time. The word is "backwoods" not "backyard". I don't consider it more dangerous than him snubbing his nose at the law and creating yet another lawsuit for the county or trying to remove the public from involvement with "our" government. Some people behave so ridiculously and determined that it’s very hard to separate them from their behavior. Allen Barrett
wab..
Why did I know that you would catch that error? Majoring in minors again? You could have been a comedian had you had the right temperament for the job. Describing your behavior there.
By the way, "backwoods" is also an adjective.
To a-nag-u-must,
There you go again, someone tells you something and you think that's all there is to it. You need to contact whoever told you that "backwoods" was only an adjective, it is also a noun.
Now that we have dispensed with the grammar lesson I would ask you to try and develop some thinking powers of your own. I’m sure the potential is there after all you learned to use a computer. So after you do a little mental exercise and get your brain in better shape ask yourself, why it doesn’t bother you more that commissioner Jackson has shown such repugnance for the law, than that wab referred to him as a backwoods bozo. Jackson seems to have used his position to negotiate jobs for most of his family. He has consistently shown an attitude of being above the law, ill tempered and vindictive.
unsmart bart...
Backwoods IS an adjective when used to describe a noun. Your hero called a commissioner a "backwoods" bozo (name-calling). In that sentence, backwoods is an adjective.
Now, let's put that same word into another sentence wherein it would be a noun. For example, Bozo lives in the backwoods. In that sentence, you can clearly see that the word is a noun.
Instead of constantly trying to match wits with me, why don't you consider enrolling in a GED course and get your high school equivalency? That would be far more productive than being a part of those who constantly whine and criticize those they do not particularly like. Wouldn't you agree?
Sorry a-nag-u-must I can't match wits with you because it would mean having to kill about a billion of my brain cells. I never said "backwoods" wasn't an adjective only that it was also a noun.
Don't need a GED I went to kindergarten before the NEA took control of the school system and got the equivalent of a masters degree.
Still waiting for those to be named you keep oinking about.
unsmart..
A degree doesn't make you a genius. You prove that over and over to me. I still think your major problems are mental and that you need help.
You were unclear in your characterization of the word being a noun. I knew it could be either noun or adjective. But could it be an adverb? Why don;t you research that and get back to me?
The group? Just go to any town meeting and you will see them. They sit together and take notes, make recordings, etc. Pathetic.
You are the many pausal conjugator - seem up to the snuff on nouns, adverbs, & adlibs, but with near zero moral definitions or fathoming the functions or facts of life. You need no notes because nothing registers. Moral relativity has made you morally irrelevant.
Maybe you ought to have a conjugal visit with the Jackson twins. The rest of us are tired of the twins doing us!
To a-nag-u-must thanks for the info. I'm glad you finally got around to identifying the "encounter group".
You state "The group? Just go to any town meeting and you will see them. They sit together and take notes, make recordings, etc. Pathetic."
That could only be the county commissioners, Mrs Vanzant and Carol Wade as they always sit together, take notes and recordings, thanks you've done a public service. They sure had me fooled I'm glad you identified them so everyone can keep an eye on them at the next meeting.
818 excellent comment - wonder what she'll come back with after your comment?
unsmart..
Once AGAIN you are wrong! Unbelievable!
The encounter group are those who continually stir up trouble and point accusing fingers at any elected officials they do not like. They are always at county and city meetings and are readily identifiable. We both know who they are, don't we? You frequently see their gems of intelligence in the Letters to the Editor section of the newspaper. Does that help any?
Since you are as anonymous as I am, I wonder if you might be part of that small band of know-it-alls who think they can come here and run things better for us. Are you? Incredibly laughable!
dial 911 pm - a nut is loose! We now know you are an "us" group member. The u stands for uninformed & s is for stupid. Together it might mean "unable to synchronize". We know who you are because you are always rotating the head 360 degrees to see who is watching "us". I'll bet you sleep with the covers over your head & a rotating periscope scanning the room 24 hours a day.
You seem to be everywhere, busy going nowhere. I'll bet you have a glass eye, that you hide on the window sill, just so you can think you see it all, know all you'll ever know, & conjure the sugar plums your daddy is laying aside for you. Ain't no butter in the butterflies you attract.
Go to a real school, learn how to add & subtract. Give logic a try. Learn about all the men who made it possible for you to vote. Woops, back to point zero - you've got to get a brain first, then figure out where the wires go.
Anonymous...
First of all, unless you are unsmart bart, the above post was not directed to you.
Secondly, you "suggest" that I am a nut because I point out what you guys are doing. Wrong! I too believe in the right of the people to petition government. However, the tactics being used by the "encounter group" (aka malcontents) is just wrong. You don't go around trying to embarrass and humiliate people in public office just because you disagree with or resent them.
Thirdly, You ask that I give logic a try? I would ask that you and a few others give peace a chance!
Finally, why would you assume that I am not one of those men who sacrificed in order that people like you have the right to whine and .......yes, vote? Don't you know what can happen when you assume something?
True problem is the county government has never had people observing who have hung in there so long and it is resented. Even commissioners admit to looking to see who is in the room so they know what they can say and not say before the public. Some of the commissioners hate being watched by people who know a great deal about out state laws and try to hold the commissioners to it. You have forgotten already that WAB pointed out the illegal secret ballots that Mike Bottoms made them do over. It will be good when some of our newly elected commissioners take over as chair of some of these committees. I dont know of one who is dishonest.
Reason we have problems now is because current chairmanships have been stacked with Vanzant's buddies. Hence the constant chaos.
Anonymous...
Let me ask you a question. Most of the commissioners were in office before Mrs. Vanzant came on the scene. That being said, are you suggesting that she somehow corrupted them in order to get her way about things? And, if you are, please explain what her motives would be. Please don't say it's all about power.
Also, you said that you don't know any of the new commissioners who are dishonest Does that mean the incumbants are dishonest?
Thank you.
826 you & your cronies are judged by what you say and do. If hearing about it embarasses you, change what you are doing.
You are so out of touch if you think I am one of the "cronies" you so willingly criticize. I have absolutely NO connection to any elected officials that I'm aware of. I just don't like to see them atttacked personally and professionally on this blog. As has been stated before, if you and your cronies have anything on these evil people, why don't you turn them in to the authorities and let them handle it?
Give peace a chance.
You have to extract your head before you can see the connection to your elected appendage. Your idea about turning in the crooks to the authorities is amusing, how do you do that when many times the authorities are the crooks or supportive of the crooks by there silence.
Your John Lennon or is that Lenin anthem of "Give peace a chance" sounds cute but the fact is there is no peace. It's only a word used by fools to get what they want.
Anonymous...
Turning in crooks to the authorities is lawful. You and I both know that. It's uch paranoia to think that everyone is crooked. Wonder who is the Johnny Appleseed who sowed those seeds of distrust? I think you and I both know who Johnny is, don't we? And you obviously bought into his message.
Then you "suggest" that I'm marxist or something because I quoted John Lennon. Absolutely hilarious. The truth of the matter is that you are angry because I don't see things the way you do.
Peace.
To anonymouslikeyouandbart,
If you are a marxist it's because you are sitting back waiting for the government to take care of you.
I'm not angry but if I every start seeing things the way you that would be justification for suicide. Piece
anonymous...
As I have said, I do NOT depend on government to be my umbilical cord. I work and pay my own way. Sorry, but that label belongs to those who do just the opposite.
Peace.
826/755 you & your cronies are judged by what you say and do. If hearing about it embarasses you or "makes you feel "unnncomfortabbble", change what you are doing.
A baaaad reputation or bad company will follow you. It's like having a pet skunk - some can't see the white stripe, some don't like the smell, but everyone else will steer clear of you and your pet! Would you rather be warned or have the kitty whiz on you when you reach down to pet it?
As I have said, I do NOT depend on government to be my umbilical cord. I work and pay my own way. Sorry, but that label belongs to those who do just the opposite.
Wise guy (calling you a name here), what do you not understand about that post?
I'm not at all embarrassed about what I am doing. Are you?
You just can't stand it when people like me challenge what you and your cronies are doing.
We are slipping into a quagmire of unfounded belief based on unqualified opinion. To my knowledge, I have seen no challenge to any data or factual statements based on that data. Failure to respond to adverse charges and claiming foul is in no way a challenge. You can't claim foul when you refuse to analyse the charge, or ask someone qualified & independent to explain it. He who wallows in "foul" believes that is all there is. If you are who I think you are, you know what is going & are working hard to cover it up!
If you had one or two elementary accounting courses, you wouldn't touch what you are doing with a ten foot pole! If you are an accountant, you can be held complicit! The ethics and standards requirements of a professional accountant are explicit and stringent. Some do go to jail & some do lose their license, or their reputation and livlihood.
I think you are who you are because that is what you are - an uninformed follower of whatever has you by the collar.
anonymous....
No, I'm probably not the person you think I am. I say that because you "suggest" that I am covering something up. Wrong! I'm just a concerned citizen who wants what's best for Giles County and who is sick and tired of a few people doing everything they can to exalt themselves by telling the rest of us how smart they are and how we need to do and think exactly as they dictate.
The problem is that my thinking doesn't align with yours, so you relegate me to some brainless person who lacks the mental energy to think for self. Wrong again!
You call me an uninformed follower. Uninformed because I don't see things like you guys . Ridiculous.
To a-nag-u-must you can't hide under that new name.
I don't ridicule you because you think different but because you don't think then try to potray yourself as a deep thinker. Not once have I read anything you have written that conveyed any original thought or expression only "what others tell you" and that you dislike wab without even knowing him. If you would read, without your defensive attitude, what wab has written you could see he has told no one what to think or do. He has only presented the truth and let's others make up their own mind about that truth. He has even at time suggested and urged others to examine the evidence for them selves and draw their own conclusions. Your problem sir is that when it comes to thinking you're just lazy. You are uninformed only because you will not allow yourself to see what is so plainly before you and that is the real shame of your ignorance.
bart...
I disliked Hitler and never knew him either. So do you have a point there?
You say your hero has only presented the truth and has "allowed" others to make their own decisions? You can't be serious. He presents his truths and then resorts to name-calling and personal attacks (describing behavior) when someone disagrees with him. Hilarious.
Your problem, other than mental, is your refusal to see things that are plainer than the nose on your face. And that, sir, is your shame!
Shirley Proud said...
A Private Act can be written by the County Commissioners and passes locally by a two-thirds vote. This Act then goes to the state legislature and this, of course can wait several months to process. Private Acts must not be in conflict with general law otherwise the courts will hold the Act unconstitutional. Our local government can include or not include any department under their Act and since it is non-binding, departments may opt out if they so choose.
The Financial Act of 1981 includes all departments within the county, excluding the Fee Offices of the courthouse. A resolution was presented in May by several commissioners who had served on a sub-committee which was formed to educate our local representatives.
I believe the results of that vote are listed in an earlier Comment above.
Anticipating a negative vote by the commissioners in their May meeting, minutes before I filed the necessary Petition for Referendum. The petition required at least 809 signatures of registered voters in order to be valid. More than 1500 signatures were secured in ten days. Response from the public was fantastic. Hopefully this Referendum will pass as most citizens of Giles County are anxious for better accountability and improvement in our local governmennt, a sentiment which has been expressed by the majority of our current and soon to be elected commissioners.
The Financial Management Act of 1981 passed by Voters is binding. In addition, a Referendum by the people supercedes any private act by the commissioners.
Thanks again for your support of this Referendum.
Tuesday, June 20, 2006 10:13:00 PM
i'm totally confused if this is true then how did this happen??
The Pulaski Board of Mayor and Aldermen failed to exercise the option of creating the position of City Administrator last week when a tie vote defeated the issue on second reading.
The board created the option of utilizing a city administrator when changes to the City Charter were approved on June 30. The revised City Charter provides for the position to be created and filled by the city council, but does not require it.
The city council approved the creation of the position unanimously on first reading at its July 10 meeting. However, the issue failed to pass the board on second and final reading when three votes were cast in favor of it and three votes cast against it.
City Attorney Andy Hoover confirmed following the vote that a tie results in the failure of the matter being considered.
Aldermen Charles Jenkins, Vicky Harwell and Pat Miles voted against creating the position. Aldermen Chuck Paysinger, Tommy Watkins and Mayor Dan Speer voted in favor. Alderman James Gentry was absent.
Prior to the vote, Jenkins had mentioned that he would like the board to further discuss the matter in a work session before it is created
was this 2 separate issues??
i'm just learning here so don't start with the calling me stupid & dummy please..Thank you
To badbart, Friday, July 13, 2007 2:51:00 PM:
I don't want to get in the middle of this tete-a-tete with you and whoever anonymouslikebart may be. But I would like to address one statement that you made to him--Not once have I read anything you have written that conveyed any original thought or expression only "what others tell you" and that you dislike wab without even knowing him.
I don't know wab personally, only know who he is, and so I don't think it's appropriate for me to judge him, except on one point that I have observed for myself. You chastise anonymouslikebart for his derision of wab based on what others have told him. I myself have personally heard wab make negative comments about other people (for example, school employees at school board meetings) that I know that he himself has never met. Knowing he has not even met these people, it must be that wab has made based his opinion and made those comments only on what he has been told by others about those people.
Isn't that the same thing for which you are chastising the poster?
August 4, 1:49 AM
The County finances are entirely separate from the City finances. Two different Charters.
To Anonymous of the 5 August 1:51 post.
It is only your assumption, and that is less than accurate, that I have spoken negatively of school employees I have never met at school board meetings. I have not!
There have only been three individuals I have mentioned at School Board meetings in a negative manner other than those who were in the room. I have spoken of situations, that may have involved individuals I had not met, but not once have I expressed any thoughts negative or positive of an individual that I did not know.
Additionally I do not practice forming opinions of others solely on the basis of what others have verbalized to me. Certainly when documented evidence is presented it can not be ignored but even that is confirmed before I choose to speak of that person on a personal level.
Allen Barrett
Mr. Barrett,
It is not an assumption that you have spoken negatively about someone that you do not know. I was at a school board meeting and heard your comments myself, and since I am a friend of the person you talked about, I know that you have never met them.
I will consent that the comments were more about situations and not exactly about the person's character, but in my opinion that's really splitting hairs. The way that you made those comments and your tone of voice unmistakeably showed that your statements were meant to present this person in a negative light. And I remember at least one statement/accusation that you made that I know was untrue. I'm not sure where you got any "documented evidence" about what you said, but it was definitely not accurate to say the least. Did you document that evidence yourself, or was it given to you or simply told to you by someone else? If the latter, don't you think it might at least be possible that it was given to you by someone with an ulterior motive, perhaps with an axe to grind or a grudge against that person? Isn't that at least a possibility?
In addition, I have read comments about that same person which you have posted on this blog, and those too were without question very negative and without any real evidence mentioned. In fact, some things you referred to are definitely inaccurate. So you have talked about someone in a public forum and written about them here (or about the situations involving them anyway) for everyone to see and have yet never even met them.
Before doing that to someone, don't you think you should at least make an effort to speak to that person directly and confront them with your evidence? Even in a court of law, in a case where it is obvious the defendant is guilty and there is lots of documented evidence that can't be denied, say in a robbery case where witnesses actually saw the robbery and the person was caught with what he stole, the defendant still is given the opportunity to plead his case and give his side before the judge or jury makes a decision about whether or not he is guilty.
I just think we should all remember that there are always two sides to every story, and I don't think it's fair to form an opionon about someone, or even mention them as you did, without them getting an opportunity to tell their side. That's all.
To Anonymous, on 5 August you posted this statement in your comment to “Bad Bart”; “I myself have personally heard wab make negative comments about other people (for example, school employees at school board meetings) that I know that he himself has never met. Knowing he has not even met these people, it must be that wab has made based his opinion and made those comments only on what he has been told by others about those people”. In this post you also stated that, “I don't know wab personally”.
Now if you don’t know me personally how is it that you know who I have and have not met?
I responded to your post and stated, “It is only your assumption, and that is less than accurate, that I have spoken negatively of school employees I have never met, at school board meetings. I have not! There have only been three individuals I have mentioned at School Board meetings in a negative manner other than those who were in the room. I have spoken of situations, that may have involved individuals I had not met, but not once have I expressed any thoughts negative or positive of an individual that I did not know”.
Now you have posted this statement, “It is not an assumption that you have spoken negatively about someone that you do not know. I was at a school board meeting and heard your comments myself, and since I am a friend of the person you talked about, I know that you have never met them”. Not knowing the specific person of whom you speak, I can not fully respond to your charge only reiterate that I have not spoken specifically of anyone at a school board meeting that I had not at least met. Have I spent an enormous amount of time with everyone I have met, certainly not, but for you to say, “I know that you have never met them” without being specific seems very disingenuous on your part and makes it very difficult to respond to. Perhaps that is the point.
You state, “And I remember at least one statement/accusation that you made that I know was untrue. I'm not sure where you got any "documented evidence" about what you said, but it was definitely not accurate to say the least. Did you document that evidence yourself, or was it given to you or simply told to you by someone else?”
When you are being as closely scrutinized as I am, you make every effort to double check every statement you make. Does that mean I am above making a mistake, of course not? The situation you speak of, as well as I understand it, is simply not one where I have spoken about someone I had not met. If you identify the person perhaps I can be more specific as to when I met them.
You also state, “I have read comments about that same person which you have posted on this blog, and those too were without question very negative and without any real evidence mentioned. In fact, some things you referred to are definitely inaccurate. So you have talked about someone in a public forum and written about them here (or about the situations involving them anyway) for everyone to see and have yet never even met them”. It is not my intention or practice to speak of someone, either negatively or positively, without some foundation on which to base my comments. If you will show any comment I have made that was “definitely inaccurate” I will not only apologize but will write a statement of retraction. If on the other hand you are simply making statements that are unfounded I would expect the same consideration.
You closed your post with this, “I just think we should all remember that there are always two sides to every story, and I don't think it's fair to form an opionon about someone, or even mention them as you did, without them getting an opportunity to tell their side. That's all.”
I agree with you completely but have to wonder did that principle apply when you formed your opinion of me? Was I given an opportunity to respond to your accusations before you made them public? No! Was I contacted in an effort to know if I had actually met the person in question? No! Did you make any real effort to find out what information I had that caused me to make such statements? No! The reason I post using my name is so that if there is any question about what I write anyone can easily contact me and get my side. Was there a side to the story that you obviously failed to get? Yes!
In closing I repeat, I do not practice forming opinions of others solely on the basis of what others have verbalized to me. Certainly when documented evidence is presented it can not be ignored but even that is confirmed before I choose to speak of that person on a personal level. Thank you, Allen Barrett
Mr. Barrett,
If you will re-read my first posting (Sunday, August 05, 2007 1:51:00 AM), I specifically stated that I did not know you personally. I made that very clear from the beginning and stated that I was describing a situation which I saw with my own eyes. I thought I had made it clear that I was not attempting to make a commentary on your character, only on a situation I witnessed myself (and not taken from "evidence" supplied by others), but if what I wrote has been taken that way, then perhaps I am at fault for not expressing myself clearly.
Of course I could tell you the name of the person I was referring to, but I feel that would only lead to more posts on this blog about that person (by anyone, not necessarily by you). Since that person is a good friend of mine, I remain in my decision not to mention the name and cause more comments to be made about them. If, as you stated, you have only spoken about three people at board meetings in a negative manner, then that should narrow it down sufficiently for you to figure out which it is.
You agreed with my statement that it isn't fair to assume something without giving the person an opportunity to defend their side, yet you never contacted this person, to my knowledge never even attempted to contact them, and asked for their side of the story before speaking about the "negative situation" publically. You may ask how I can know that, but as I said, the person is a good friend of mine, and I will simply state that I do know. I may be wrong, but it seems to me you have formed an opinion about this person without really knowing them at all. But that's just my opinion I guess.
On a side note, you stated, "Have I spent an enormous amount of time with everyone I have met, certainly not." To me, it does not matter if you have never met someone, know them only by a few aquaintances, or know them well and speak with them frequently, they still should be given an opportunity to explain their side first. I realize this may not be a common practice nowdays, but I still think it's the right thing to do.
Well, it was not my intention anyway for my statments to be a commentary about you. What I was trying to do was point out what I felt about the practice of talking negatively about anyone, by anyone, without knowing both sides of the story. As I said, I don't know you and don't think it's fair to make any judgement about you. I will try in the future to make my point more clearly.
To Anonymous of 6 August 7:33 post.
In your post of 5 August, that I responded to you made this statement, "I myself have personally heard wab make negative comments about other people (for example, school employees at school board meetings) that I know that he himself has never met. Knowing he has not even met these people, it must be that wab has made based his opinion and made those comments only on what he has been told by others about those people.
So I stand by my response to that posting and repeat, "I HAVE NOT spoken on a personal level of anyone that I have not personally met". If you are using the term "know" and "met" as interchangeable then that is a different matter. One problem caused by your refusal to identify the person you speak of is that I can only speak in generalities thus not make a full and specific defense. I will tell you as before, the three people I have spoken of on a personal level at school board meetings, were people I had personally met and spoken with. If the issue involved smoking on school grounds or absenteeism, I can personally attest to having seen the person by the front door of the school smoking and the attendance record speaks for itself. If it involved foul language I can personally attest to the fact the person spoke such in my presence and the presence of students. If the issue is an assignment to the alternative school I had several conversations with that person and their spouse and consider them friends. I do not recall nor do my records show any other time I referred to anyone on a personal level during a school board meeting. Allen Barrett
And so it goes with the "unbiased" reporter!
hmmm, seems wab admits to not knowing some of the people hes talked about, though he maybe said hi how are you once or saw them once in passing. and that gives him the right to be judge and jury and point out a flaw in public? what happened to "judge not...."? did he ever express his concerns to them directly? seems to me that would be the first thing to do and seems he cleverly avoided answering the poster and admiting that he didnt by focusing on whether hed met them. guess what i really wonder is, why those three? unfortunate as it may be, im sure other people have smoked or let slip a curse word, or whatever happened at the alternative school. so again, why those three, whoever they are? why not point out others who have done the same thing? could it be he has another agenda, or maybe someone else put the idea in his head to go after these three for their own personal agenda? sounds more like a witch hunt against these people than an actual issue with the action itself which im sure others too have done but its not an issue with those people. maybe wab ought to consider hes being used by someone to get at people they dont like or have a problem with. i have to agree with the other poster, at least he should have talked to the people about the problem first and given them a chance to respond before going over their heads and trying to embarass them in public. i mean, whats the point after all, to correct a problem or just to embarass somebody?
To Anonymous of 8 August 9:27 post,
You state, “hmmm, seems wab admits to not knowing some of the people hes talked about, though he maybe said hi how are you once or saw them once in passing. and that gives him the right to be judge and jury and point out a flaw in public? what happened to "judge not...."?”
If you would go back to the original post that started this discussion you’ll see that the charge was made that I had spoken on a personal level about some specific people at a school board meeting that the poster absolutely new I had never even met. I responded to that charge by saying that it was blatantly false. I never made any pretense about not having a personal relationship with those people, but I had met and on occasion spoken with them. Since my last post I realized I have spoken specifically of one other person at a school board meeting and that was Mr. Miller. I suppose the reason I forgot is because I was gaveled down by Chairman Gonzales so quickly. I had substituted for Mr. Miller and was impressed by how well respected he was by his students yet because of power and control issues within the principal he was abruptly dismissed without cause.
I did not set myself up as judge and jury, I only attempted to report behavior to the Board that was in violation of written and stated school policy and detrimental to the well being of those under their charge. Were I the judge and jury, two of those I spoke about would have been fired on the spot and the other two would have been back in their regular classrooms teaching.
You stated, “Did he ever express his concerns to them directly? seems to me that would be the first thing to do and seems he cleverly avoided answering the poster and admiting that he didnt by focusing on whether hed met them.”
I did not “cleverly avoid answering the poster”, there was simply no question asked about whether I had taken the issue up with the individuals directly. I suppose I could have confronted those individuals by asking if she knew she was smoking on school property in violation of rules she enforced on others, or I could have asked the other person if they were aware how offensive their cussing was? I chose not to confront them choosing instead to speak with their boss.
How would you confront those people whose long histories have shown complete disregard for their own behavior?
You state, “guess what i really wonder is, why those three? unfortunate as it may be, im sure other people have smoked or let slip a curse word, or whatever happened at the alternative school. so again, why those three, whoever they are? why not point out others who have done the same thing?”
These were situations I observed with my own little eyes and ears. Do I believe others have done such and even worse, probably but I have not observed them with my own eyes and ears.
You state, “could it be he has another agenda, or maybe someone else put the idea in his head to go after these three for their own personal agenda? sounds more like a witch hunt against these people than an actual issue with the action itself which im sure others too have done but its not an issue with those people. maybe wab ought to consider hes being used by someone to get at people they dont like or have a problem with.”
If you knew me you wouldn’t ask such a question. I will listen to most anyone about most anything but will not make up my mind or take any action until I am satisfied with the situation. Can I be used by others, of course but certainly not often and very seldom without my knowledge?
You state, “at least he should have talked to the people about the problem first and given them a chance to respond before going over their heads and trying to embarass them in public. i mean, whats the point after all, to correct a problem or just to embarass somebody?”
What is the point of confronting someone who uses their authority to prevent criticism and obviously has no intention of changing their behavior with which they are satisfied? I went “over their head” because their behavior was such as to warrant going over their heads. With such people only a higher authority will be listened too. Allen Barrett
you admit to not knowing these people personaly yet describe "long histories" of their supposed behavior. that seems very contradictory to me. maybe if you actually took the time to talk with them and get to know them you might find out different. how do you know for sure it wouldnt do any good to talk to them if you never tried. or maybe what you think would be proved right. either way you could then say you really do know. until then, you cant say you know anything about them, regardless of what other people tell you about them or what you try to prove in posts here. end of discussion.
08/09/ 4:28
is this one of those post that prove you cannot debate people who have already made up their minds that they are right & you are wrong???
it sure looks like you have decided you are right & end of discussion period.
so does that mean they aren't supposed to reply anymore or that no matter what is presented you are not going to look at both sides just yours??
btw that is considered a power play just like making a remark & walking out the door right afterwards is considered control.
wab, Thursday, August 09, 2007 11:32:00 AM, "I had substituted for Mr. Miller and was impressed by how well respected he was by his students yet because of power and control issues within the principal he was abruptly dismissed without cause."
I think you are dead wrong about her. I used to sub alot at that school and I subbed for Mr. Miller too. Know what he left me to have the kids do? Watch a movie. Know what that movie had to do with math? Absolutely nothing. This wasn't an emergency sub either, he asked me severel days ahead but he didn't have time to plan anything but that? Did you know the policy is teachers are not suposed to show movies and if they show any kind of clips or anything they are suposed to be directly about what is taught that day? If your a sub then you know how hard it is when the teacher doesn't leave any plans-or instructions either. He didn't tell me I had cafeteria duty, so I wasn't where I was suposed to be in the morning. When I explained why to an assistant principal they said they weren't surprized. Another teacher told me he had not been showing up for his duty either. I asked why he was fired but they said administrators are not allowed to tell the reason. So the truth is I don't know why and neither do you. So I don't see how you can say it was because of power and control issues if nobody including her is allowed to say the reason. Another thing, you said "What is the point of confronting someone who uses their authority to prevent criticism". Did you know that some kids wore t-shirts to school that said Save Mr. Miller when they found out he was fired? One of my daughter's friends asked her to wear one too and she didn't even have him. I would not let her because I thought it was so disrespectful to Miss McMasters. Alot of the teachers were mad and the assistant principals were going to make them change or send them home, but she told them not too. I know that for a fact because I was subbing that day and I was in the office and heard her say it. I remember she told them as long as it didn't disrupt class to let them wear the t-shirts. I don't remember exactly what else she said but it was something like she thought it was important to them to express their feelings. I think it hurt her feelings but she tried not to show it, I know it would of mine. And I don't think the kids came up with that idea anyway, I think some parents put them up to it. Does that sound like somebody who "uses their authority to prevent criticism" to you? Like I said your wrong about her. If you would get to know her you would find out your wrong.
To Anonymous of the 19 August 1:28 post.
There was much controversy in the firing of Mr. Miller and I agree he was far from perfect as are we all but the fact remains that he was able to reach kids, challenge them, involve them and teach them math. Of all the teachers that have left Richland and the whole system does it not strike you odd that he would be the only one where a protest was launched and both kids and parents demonstrated against the firing?
Does it seem reasonable that the principal in question missed over half the school year last year? Can you deny ever having seen her smoking on school grounds even in the presence of children and other teachers? You site her handling of the tee shirt incident which sounds reasonable but how would you describe the way she ignored one student shooting another in the parking lot with a pellet gun? The mother of the child had to file an assault charge before anyone would even speak with her for more than a brief blow off.
Your claim that movies are not being shown unless they enhance the class subject really made me laugh, not at you but at the situation. Ask your children how many times they have seen “Pirates of the Caribbean”, “Garfield, The Movie”, or half a dozen others that are shown over and over. There are even a few “R” rated movies that make the rounds. Keep in mind that under 18 is not admitted in the theaters. Allen Barrett
I find it quite telling that you can so easily find forgiveness for one person("he was far from perfect as are we all") yet completely refuse to even consider doing the same for another person. Just like you said "Your claim that movies are not being shown unless they enhance the class subject". You are completely wrong, I never said that. What I said was it was the policy. If movies are shown then the teacher is the one not following the policy. You got that wrong, so maybe alot of the "facts" you claim are just as wrong. But what is really shameful is not just that you refuse to believe or try to find anything good about someone, but I think you DON'T WANT to believe anything good about that person or some others you talk about on here. It's almost like you want to try to ruin people. And you call yourself a preacher? When I was having a problem forgiving someone, my minister told me that he woke up each day and gave everybody a blank slate. He said he didn't judge them on what they did yesterday but looked at what they did today and tried to find something good in that. And if they messed up today, they had a blank slate the next day. And he did that every day. Though I'm not perfect and I still get upset or angry, it helped me learn the meaning of forgiveness and trying to find good in people. In the morning, just like I do for everybody else, you will have a blank slate. But for today, I have to say I have never in my life known a man of God who looked like you seem to for the negative in people and didn't try to find something good in everyone and focus on that.
To the August 21st 8:44:00 PM poster. I apologize for the lateness of my reply.
You state, “I find it quite telling that you can so easily find forgiveness for one person("he was far from perfect as are we all") yet completely refuse to even consider doing the same for another person”.
I fear we have very different ideas about forgiveness. For me “forgiveness” is something granted or sought after some effort has been made to correct a wrong. An allowance for or benefit of a doubt is something different. Mr. Miller, based on his relationship with students and his productivity with students was given allowance because his actions were not necessarily bad habits but more perhaps shortcomings in judgments. Ms. McMasters in my opinion has made a habit of showing a deliberate disregard for rules, laws, and high standards of conduct.
You said, “Just like you said "Your claim that movies are not being shown unless they enhance the class subject". You are completely wrong, I never said that. What I said was it was the policy. If movies are shown then the teacher is the one not following the policy.”
I responded to your statement, “I subbed for Mr. Miller too. Know what he left me to have the kids do? Watch a movie. Know what that movie had to do with math? Absolutely nothing. Did you know the policy is teachers are not suposed to show movies and if they show any kind of clips or anything they are suposed to be directly about what is taught that day”.
Your implication was to me that because there was a policy, yes I know the policy, the policy was being followed. So I apologize for blurring an implication with what you actually said. The fact remains movies are continuing to be shown that have nothing to do with the subject and policy is ignored into non-existence.
You state, “You got that wrong, so maybe alot of the "facts" you claim are just as wrong. But what is really shameful is not just that you refuse to believe or try to find anything good about someone, but I think you DON'T WANT to believe anything good about that person or some others you talk about on here. It's almost like you want to try to ruin people. And you call yourself a preacher?”
I agreed with you and apologized when I understood that I was mistaken about your statement. My question is, are you now going to examine everything I ever said or wrote on the basis that I exceeded the meaning of your statement? Does that mean you don’t give me a clean slate to start each new day with? You seem very critical of me and even make accusations about my motives without any possible knowledge of them. You even challenge my position as a pastor. Surely you would not be guilty of the very thing you accuse me of, are you? What effort have you made to see any good in me?
You state, “When I was having a problem forgiving someone, my minister told me that he woke up each day and gave everybody a blank slate. He said he didn't judge them on what they did yesterday but looked at what they did today and tried to find something good in that. And if they messed up today, they had a blank slate the next day. And he did that every day. Though I'm not perfect and I still get upset or angry, it helped me learn the meaning of forgiveness and trying to find good in people.”
I do not know your minister so I can not accurately comment on his behavior other than to say if what he said is actually what he does, he is either very naive or just plain foolish. I certainly agree this idea would be a worthy goal for ones life but reality is reality and no one is able to do such a thing. Even Jesus spoke to the Scribes and Pharisees on the basis of their behavior over a period of time not just the moment. Only a foolish person would put complete trust in a person, who had previously lied to them, until after they had proven themselves once again to be trustworthy. With your expressed idea of “starting each day and give everybody a blank slate” would we not be required to let everyone in jail out each morning? Would we not be required on Tuesday to think of radical Moslems, who swore a blood oath on Monday to kill us, as our friends?
You state, “I have to say I have never in my life known a man of God who looked like you seem to for the negative in people and didn't try to find something good in everyone and focus on that.”
I appreciate your being so lenient with me especially since you really know nothing about me. I assure you I do look for good in everyone but I don’t allow that to blind me to the reality of bad. People who have no interest in acting in any way other than bad must have that behavior condemned as unacceptable. One of the horrible results of Christians especially being over fed on the idea, mostly by cowardly ministers hiding behind their piety, that Christians can never be critical, or judgmental of behaviors, or take a firm stand and even make a public demonstration against evil, is that evil now dominates our world. Keeping God only in the church has severely weakened him everywhere else. To apologize for the truth would make the truth of no value. Allen Barrett
wab...
You are truly a one-of-a-kind. Can you not see that the more you attempt to impress others with your brilliance and sainthood, the more you fall into the abyss of kookdom and hypocrisy?
I agree wab is one of a kind. One not afraid to tell the truth. One not afraid to stand up to the big boys and girl. One not afraid to challenge wrongs. One willing to speak out for the little guy. One who is well informed. One who has principles and stands by them. One who gets under the skin of the bad guys. One not afraid to put his name on what he says. One who is a good example for young people. One who is willing to use his intelligence for the good of others. One not intimidated by the threats of others. One who doesn't back down when he's right. Yep, wab is one of a kind alright, nice of you to notice.
Yep, he's quite a guy, isn't he? A man after God's own heart, right? Oh, but you would say I am being too judgmental.
Perceptions vary, would you agree? Sorry, but your description of "The Great One" is just too funny. You were trying to be comical, weren't you? Go back and read that description and ask yourself if it isn't more like a show-off and troublemaker. Just be honest with yourself.
The only person not being honest is you dipstick. I heard you had a near death experience recently, you had an original thought and it nearly scared you to death. Sure everyone knows that's a joke because they all know you could never have an original thought.You go on and whine, spread rumors and make up things and pretend you are important while I'm sure wab will continue to do things and make a difference in this world.
Right. Will you go on spreading the "rumor" that wab is a well-informed champion of the little man? If you do, be aware that I will be challenging that rumor vigorously. What you described is a troublemaker and I will continue to "expose" the truth.
After reading a number of postings by wab and I assume different individual
posters using the label "anonymous"
it seems the only objection to you "exposing" the truth is that you fail to supply any thing other that your opinion and feeling that the man is a trouble maker. I may not know much but from what I have read about him in the newspaper, on this blog and from the TV reports he seems to have made a very positive impact on county and city politicians. One thing for certain is because of him and people like him county government is not nearly as secretive and oppressive as it was before he came on the scene.
Anonymous..
I wish you would please stop encouraging wab. He already has enough ego to last three men a lifetime. All comments like yours do is make him even worse.
What's the matter anonymous that you feel so threatened by wab. Sure it's hard to look at someone with real character and self confidence without seeing the shortcomings and lack of accomplishments in your own life but you just got to get over it and grow some of your own. Grow up man wab seems like a cool dude and you have to admit he's got the goads to face up to those taking our money. Way to go wab keep it up for all us little guys trying to protect our jobs, thanks.
anonymous...
A person of "real" character is not one who gets on a public forum and belittles those he or she dislikes or resents. To me, such a person is small-minded and vindictive. Thank God, I don't have to use such pettiness as a measuring stick for my own life with its shortcomings and failures. Ironically, my admitted imperfections would cast me in a more favorable light than one who goes about beating upon his own chest and declaring his perfections. Think!
Goads...don't you mean gonads? What a laugh. All your hero proves is that gonads have nothing to do with exposing one's rear end!
Hey dumbo, if I had meant "gonads" I would have said it. Simply having gonads means there is the potential for reproducing and most any dunce can do that. On the other hand "goads" are sharp sticks or prods used to drive dumb animals. WAB clearly has used his intelligence and courage to drive some political hacks to distraction and better behavior.
anonymous...
All I can say is that you are so deluded. Or, should I say duped?
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