A Gay & Lesbian Alliance at Martin College????
The word is circulating that some students and faculty at Martin Methodist College are in the process of forming a Gay Lesbian Alliance on campus. I suppose with the additional growth at Martin this was bound to happen but is it necessary. What people do in the privacy of their own home is one thing but for a Christian School to give public support and recognition to something God has identified as an abomination seems a bit strange even in this day and time. Allen Barrett
posted by Allen Barrett | 10:37 AM
350 Comments:
This is just disgusting to me! This so called "Christian" college promoting a gay/lesbian organization would make John Wesley spin in his grave. I wonder how this will go over with all of Martin's Christian donors? I know you can sure count me out from EVER giving them another dime of my money!
Good for them! Methodists are supposed to be liberal so it shouldnt have a bearing on their donations.
Are you the one that don't like anything Barrett writes about?
I'm not a Methodist, but I doubt any of my Methodist friends would agree with this.
What faculty would support this? Are they gay/lesbian? When you think you have heard it all, something always tops it. What is this world coming to? I wonder if any of the students are home grown
I HOPE this is not true! The BIBLE speaks aganis homosexuality. If so, I think it will tarnish the reputation of MMC.
If the group meets on their own time what difference does it make to the school. These young people have rights.
Then before you get all in a twirl look at the topic heading that says word is circulating. Could be just an unfounded rumor.
I agree with 8:05, if students want to form a group for any purpose they should have to right to do it. I love the fact that freedom only extends to those you agree with. I am sure a student run NRA chapter would be met with support or at the least silence.
I hope MMC loses the support they have had for all these years if what is being reported is true. I think it is appalling that could be true. For all you non-believers out there, when the gates of heaven swing open for those of us who live by the good book but slam in the face of those who seem to think it is fair and just to allow such an atrocity, it will be a shame those devout Christians will not be able to change your thinking at that point. It will be too late. People confuse things easily these days. The bible has been around much longer than the constitution and your soul should be what you worry about and not insuring that those who choose to live in a way the bible condemns get their rights. In the end as I said, you will be wishing you had thought more about the hereafter than those who choose to live the way the bible clearly condemns. I pray we as a people wake up and see the error of our ways before it it too late.
10;24 You say "If students want to form a group for any purpose they should have the right to do it." Does that include a group to over throw the government in the United States of America???? (Not to say MMC students are doing this. Just saying you made an ignorant statement!) Remember trying to over throw the government of the United States of America IS treason - punishable by DEATH! Careful what YOU say....
wab,
Since this is only a RUMOR, why do you have to go stirring up more trouble? Or would you define hearsay as news?
Looks like you may be well on your way to making more enemies with this one.
4:51, by that logic all the persons attending the Tea Parties around the country and those in Texas calling for secession should be executed? Of course I was referring to any group within reason that does not engage in harmful or violent acts. That was an assumption that I thought we all could make. Guess I was wrong. And you call me ignorant.
Seems that WAB has no news topics so be adds this 'rumor' just to keep people stirred.
The Gay and Lesbian problem is not only at Martin but in Giles County schools as well. Go to a ball game and open your eyes and look around.
Martin is a very LIBERAL college posing as a "Christian" institution, and has been for quite some time. I personally know several students who started Martin as Christians, and graduated as atheists after receiving the indoctrination from this school and its liberal teachers. So, this rumored gay/lesbian alliance comes as no surprise to me at all, and indeed fits Martin's template. I do think that someone from our "real" media...are you listening Scott Stewart....needs to make some phone calls and get to the bottom of this.
As an alumnus, who is regularly showered with donation requests, I would be very interested in knowing exactly who is behind this....teachers, adminstration, etc. If this "rumor' is substantiated, and I suspect that it will be, I assure you that I have given my last penny to this institution.
The purpose of this blog is to inform. In part that means reporting news events, giving people an opportunity to discuss or simply vent and post topics that people are concerned with and talking about.
At times I have been accused of simply printing rumors to stir people up. I must admit I have printed much on this blog that stirred people up but I have not printed unfounded rumors.
I may write in such a way as to protect my sources and insulate me from legal problems but what I write is the truth as I see it based on the facts I am aware of. Others may reach a different conclusion than I and they have the right to post those thoughts on this blog. My thoughts are mine, they are easily identified and not based on rumor. Some may not like them but thus far they have not disproved them. Allen Barrett
Funny how your "information" is always inflammatory and usually lacks any factual substantiation.
Well Well now haven't we caused quite a stir in our little community. GET A LIFE PEOPLE!!! When did God give any of you the right to judge another?
"Judge not lest ye be judged" "Love thy neighbor as thyself" Is this a Cristian community or a bunch of hypocrites playing at being Christian?? Now you know why I do not attend church. I refuse to associate myself with anyone who says they are followers of Christ and then who prove themselves liers by spounting off uniformed prejudicial comment. At one said, get a life, a clue and an education while you are at it. By the way, a very intelligent person once told me that prejudice is based on ignorance or fear. So, are you afraid that they have something you don't (like a brain) or are you just stupid? Please, I'd really like to know. Or maybe youjust know that they are better people that you are and you can't stand it..plain old jealousy..I love it.
I hope you are getting yourself an education because judging by your lack of sentence structure and grammar you need it. To point out the incorrect way to live your life is not being judgmental. Get of your high horse and stop thinking you made a point. Because you haven't! I know my bible and what it teaches and for me to suggest that those who choose to live their lives in a way the bible condemns is not being judgmental. It is speaking the truth. Sometimes the truth hurts doesn't it. Running rampant and living your life freely with no accountability to a higher power is not only arrogant but ignorant.Get our your bible and read!!! You just might learn something constructive to use in your life. Perhaps, it will save your soul. After all, that is what we all should be concerned about. If you think otherwise, I feel sorry for you.
Ah. First of all the word is "off" not "of". I do believe that your opinion is clouded by your own beliefs. The Bible is just a book and everyone must interpret books for themselves. A person's interpretation of Chaucer's stories is simply that-- an interpretation. The Bible is no different. You can give a Bible to someone,and you can tell them what you feel it says, but ultimetly they must decide for themselves the meaning of it. Only chaucer knows what he meant when he wrote his stories, and only the writers of the books of the Bible know what the true meanings are. To be a true christian takes not only courage but humility in some situations. This is one!!As a former student and now staff at Martin I do not feel this club represents any abomination rather it represents the true meaning of a libral arts college.
• *This is my opinion and in no way reflects the policy of any organizations that are mentioned in it.*
• First, this is a blog, not an essay or a paper. Most people do not check spelling and grammar in a blog. Second, before you attack someone else’s spelling and grammar you should check your own. Third, accusing the faculty and staff of being gays or lesbians just because there is a gay/straight alliance on campus is being judgmental. You should not make accusations about people that you do not know. Nor should your belief be the end all be all of how someone should live their life. Also, condemning an entire group of people for allowing an organization on a college campus that they cannot keep out by law is just as judgmental as assuming that the entire campus is gay or lesbian. You do not want anyone else to judge you based on your lifestyle or beliefs; do not presume to do the same to other people. Correct me if I’m wrong, but most of the verses that you are referring to in the Bible are Old Testament, and supposedly that was made null and void when Jesus died. I could be mistaken, but I thought that the blood of Jesus was supposed to wash away sins. If this is true, then people are forgiven their sins no matter how they live their lives. No one has a right to tell them that their lifestyle is condemning them. You are not God. Nor are you His voice on this planet. I respect your opinion, and we do celebrate free speech. Equality is a reality in this country, and I’d like to believe it is in Heaven as well. Discrimination based on age, race, sex, religion or lifestyle is illegal. Promoting discrimination is illegal as well, or should be. Please feel free to have your opinion, as I will have mine. However, when your opinion infringes on the rights of others then it should be kept to yourself or should be stated as an opinion and not as if it’s fact.
Excuse me it does not take a genius to understand that in the Bible 2 cities were destroyed for sexual perversion, nor does it take someone needing to interpret it for a reader to understand exactly why God destroyed the 2 cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. Kids are so mixed up today about sexuality it is ridiculous. It's pretty bad when you have 8 and 9 year old children asking if they are gay.
Yes people have the freedom to do as they chose but why do they have to push their alternate lifestyles down our throats? I don't care what anyone says its unnatural and God did not intend it to be that way.
Mr. Barrett, perhaps if you had investigated this further you would know that the Gay Straight Alliance at Martin Methodist College is not a rumor. The plan was conceived last January and the organization was formed last semester. That's certainly long enough to clarify if something is a rumor or not.
Second, the faculty advisor for the GSA is not gay and many of the students (both gay and straight) are "home grown". The idea that someone could doubt that gay people live in Pulaski is laughable to me. Do you think they're like carpetbaggers or freedom riders, brought down from the big bad north to "stir up trouble"?
I'm appalled at the comparison of a Gay Straight Alliance to an organization whose purpose is the overthrow of the United States government. Why must conversations related to gay people be taken to such ridiculous extremes? Why not stay on the topic at hand? The GSA has nothing to do with anarchist or terrorist groups, just as gay marriage wouldn't pave the way for legalized pedophilia or whatever the ridiculous argument du jour is today.
As a Martin Methodist College student I'm offended at the accusations hurled toward the faculty that their supposed liberal leanings are indoctrinating the students with atheist sensibilities. This is a complete and total falsehood. They are the epitome of professionalism and I have never once heard a professor espouse his or her social, political, or religious beliefs as gosepel. As someone whose religious beliefs were once much stronger than they are now, I owe it not to the professors at Martin College, but to some of the very same people who comment on this blog. These people who proudly wear the badge of Christianity while espousing ignorance, bigotry, cruelty, and hatred have driven me away from Christianity faster and easier than twenty years of the supposed atheist indoctrination at Martin could do.
I am proud that my school has a Gay Straight Alliance. I support any organization that supports building bridges rather than tearing them down, loving people rather than belittling or judging them.
As a gay person, I take great offense to this homophobia and hatred. I respect your right to free speech and to an opinion (no matter how corrupt I believe it to be), but when you begin infringing upon my rights, that is when I take great offense. As Martin students, we have a right to organize to ensure a campus accepting of all students. We are not "pushing" a gay "lifestyle," but you are definitely pushing Christian doctrine and a HETEROSEXUAL LIFESTYLE upon me and our organization. I did not choose to be gay, even though your ignorance may justify that thought. And yes, LGBT people do exist in Giles County (what a shock!). Also, when you choose to use your Bible against me, are you also going to justify slavery and the subordination of women (which is what the Bible does)? I think not. Plus, why should you have a voice in what we do? We are a private school, and it is honorable that our school does not discriminate like you would like them to do.
wab
Well, looks like you've done it again. This one is worse than the Roger Strickland debacle, isn't it? When will you ever learn?
Im just going to start off by saying this, most of you people that have posted some of the ridiculous comments are completely thick headed. How can you sit there and say that those who are in and who condone what the Gay/Lesbian Alliance is about is subject to burn in the pits of hell? What makes you so called "christians" better than anyone else? How can you sit there and say that those who are against this alliance and live by the "Good Book" are going to "heaven" when the "lord" calls? The so called "true christians" are those who do NOT pass judgment on others. Those who choose the life style that they do is THEIR own choice. Not you simple minded liberals. Im sure most of you are the typical backwards people who think that they have to argue something and feel that YOUR opinion is the only one that counts. It makes me laugh really. Im not a homosexual but I accept what they do and do not criticize any of it. It doesnt matter if the "bible" has been around longer than the constitution. There is this thing called separation of church and state, so throw your religion out of the window on this topic. Because it is not up to you or anyone else to decide what should go on in something you're not even involved in. I bet most of you who posted these bashing posts have some sort of homosexual tie in this world, be it someone in your family or one or more of your friends. So seriously cut the BS and let them live their lives, because its not like what they do effect your everyday life. So why dont you climb out of the little box that you all apparently live in and accept this world as it is nowadays. You know the world that accepts homosexuality openly. Seriously, Im tired of you ignorant country folk that feel that if they arent bickering about something then their lives are meaningless. Well guess what 98% of the time your lives usually are. Now put that in your juice box and suck it. And the sad thing is, is that Im just a visitor to this county and to the town of Pulaski. What an impression you simple minded people have made on me, thanks for the lovely experience. I shall cherish it always.
Good for the young people for speaking up! What kind of support are you looking for? You have mine.
4:51 to 8:46 One cannot begin to read a mind that is so 'fogged' over! What you 'meant' to say IS NOT what YOU said. YOU said 'any group for any reason!' Good try with the Tea Party stuff....however, just another show of the 'scarecrow' syndrome - 'if I only had a brain....'
WAB, looks like 3:11 confirmed the 'rumors'. 3:11 why are you attending a Christian Methodist College when YOU are SO opposed to Christanity???? The United States has thousands of colleges to choose from. It would be my hope that MMC respects the BIBLE and its teachings. It would be my hope MMC WOULD 'promote' and 'push' Christian values. YOU have NO right to attend a Christian Methodist College and try to ram anti-Christian 'lifestyles' down their throats as a form of individual rights. YOU do have the RIGHT to attend another college who is MORE accepting of the lifestyle you and your friends 'choose' to engage in.
random
You can make excuses and accuse people of judging, but the fact is and remains that the Bible is right and that God DOES condemn homosexuality. I'm sorry if that doesn't sit just right with you and that you feel you must call those judgmental who point out Biblical truths. But, there will come a day when all of us will be believers and will no longer question God's word. You call those like me of being liberal. On the contrary, we are among those who rightly should be called conservatives. There used to be a time in this country when people didn't scoff at Bible teachinbgs. What happened? Who moved right or left.
The only judging that should be done on homosexuality is the Bible, and It is plain as day on that issue. I regret that you don't seem to accept what it has to say.
Another rumor?
Is is true Taommy Campbell is again planning to run for county executive?
The funny thing is my Bible says "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you." Matthew 7:1-2, my Bible says "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." John 8:7. Not one of you has a right to condemn anyone because you sin out of the same mouth that you claim speaks for God. I dare say that none of you have ever read and understood the Bible and instead you wait to hear what your so-called "preachers" tell you. You all should be ashamed, but you don't even know shame.
7:46 Thanks for good post.
What you don't seem to be understanding is that the Bible IS the measuring stick by which sinful or unlawful behavior is determined. The judging you refer to is when someone "judges" the thoughts and intents of another's heart. Would you call it judging if you saw a man on his knees praying, and you arrogantly accuse him of being insincere? Yes, you would be judging him. Would you call it judging if the Bible condemns murder, and you see a man murder another? Could you not say that man is a murderer and not be accused of judging him? Of course, you could, because he is a murderer. The distinction with respect to "judging" is between the thoughts and intents of one's heart and with his behavior. Surely, you can see the difference if you choose to do so.
Having said that, would you at least agree that the Bible condemns homosexuality? If you do, then would you be judging two individuals you happen to catch engaged in a homosexual act? Or would you be judging them wrongfully? If the Bible says it's a sin, we either believe it or we reject it. But the day will come when everyone will believe. Not one jot or tittle will change, and it's unfortunate that you are angered by that.
To Alliance Secretary: I may be missing something here, but I think that most of us who are opposed to a school sponsored gay organization are opposed because Martin claims to be a "Christian" school and collects many donations as such. Martin's tuition is not cheap, as I'm sure you well know. Most Christian parents send their children off to Christian schools expecting a Christian doctrine to be espoused. Indeed, parents pay top dollar to send their children to small, private, Christian schools, and it's not unreasonable to expect Christian values on a Christian campus.
Just curious, but what rights of yours have been infringed? What is the purpose of the organization if not to promote homosexuals and/or their lifestyles? I know that this country's morals are in the sewer, but there are still a majority of us that would really prefer NOT to hear about homosexual perversions. (And to anybody that thinks homosexuality isn't a perversion, google "Folsom Street Fair" and look at the pictures, read the descriptions. WARNING: It's not for the weak of stomach and definitely NOT to be done while children are present.)
For the record, I am neither homophobic or a hater of homosexuals. I've had several gay friends over the years and their sexual preference was never an issue in our friendship. They neither flaunted or constantly advertised their sexuality. But there is a new breed of homosexuals today. They are radical activists, in your face, flaming and militant. They ARE pushing a social agenda. The men are dressing like women, wearing make up and fingernail polish. Or they may go to the other extreme and dress like those at the Folsom Street Fair. No matter how you spin it, it's not normal. I'm sorry if that offends you.
And if Martin persists in supporting gay causes, I wouldn't be surprised if they lose many of their supporters.
What then about divorce? The Bible plainly that divorce is wrong and yet little is said in public against those who divorce and remarry. Why is homosexuality the end all issue? There is sin all around us and yet this is the issue that creates so much anger and fervor.
Ok honestly, alot of the points being made are valid, but why cant you people turn the other cheek on the subject at hand like you do to so many other things in the world and in your everyday lives? I mean I know most of you turn the other cheek when you see someone hitting their child in public or performing some other unlawful act within reason. I understand that Martin is a "Christian" school and may lose donations, but obviously there is more to the picture than what you people are seeing. The only thing the arguments are pertaining to mainly is money and religion. I mean apparently the dean has a proper head on his shoulders and understands the values of a persons rights as well as respect for the church. Have anyone of you even went to the school and checked on what this alliance is all about? What they consist of other than being homosexuals? I really doubt it. Most of you wouldnt go for fear of learning something that would prove you wrong or cause you to seem like a hypocrite in one way or the other. Why cant you people just accept them for who they are and not what they do. If its a sin then so be it. Its their life style not yours. You dont pay their bills you dont pay their tuitions. You're just ranting on and on about how the school will lose support and money. Like that is whats supposed to make the world go around. Sure money has SOME things to do with it but not all. I mean apparently most of the faculty and students enrolled at Martin accept this alliance, why cant you? Its sad to say that this generation is more accepting to chance then those who are supposed to be teaching them. I.E their parents. I mean honestly, is this how you want your children to grow up. Disliking and critizing that which they dont understand or always have to turn to a book to see if its justified or not? Come on now people this is a new era I believe the 21st century to be exact. Things arent black and white anymore. Why must you be prejudice, this isnt the day of the slaves we arent fighting a civil war anymore. So seriously stop the hate, because the more you continue to bicker the more Im comparing you to the Klan members that still hold meeting in the town square. Because once again you people are leaving a very distasteful out look for me on Giles County.
To: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 7:46:00 PM
I resent your saying, "your so called preacher". I bet my preacher hasn't ever read this blog.
He preaches what the Bible says.
I'm sorry this world is leaving religion behind. Someday will be to late to change.
I was so proud Giles County had Martin Methodist College.
Now I think my child will not go there.
I am finding most all of these comments for the newly formed organization quite laughable. It seems some so called educated folks of our community and working in our local college(Christian at that)don't know the difference between stating what the bible says and judging ones heart. I really have no homophobic sensitivities. I actually know quite a lot of gay and lesbian people (family & friends). With that said,it has been in no way an intention of mine to judge or belittle people who choose that lifestyle. I pray for them certainly because I understand how the bible reads(clearly and plainly)that this lifestyle is an abomination. Now, I have talked with those I know about their lifestyle in a loving and caring way and expressed to them my deep concern for their soul. As a Christian and I have been one for many years, it is what I am to do. We reach out to those and show them in the bible where this lifestyle and other worldy temptations are wrong. However, that is not judging. That is taking care of our brother. None of us are perfect that is for sure. But, God reads our hearts. We are given forgiveness for sins we ask forgiveness for. If we continue to sin and show no remorse in our hearts then we are not forgiven. I understand it is a liberal society we live in that young and old alike tend to believe that they have their own ideals of what living right is. God will determine our eternal fate if we have not lived according to the Gospel. It seems to upset those who won't to argue that those of us who believe homosexual behavior is wrong are judging. Well, no need to argue with me. I am only a messenger of God's word. I study the scripture and live my life according to that scripture. There really is no need for those of you who exhibit such harsh feelings towards those of us who point out homosexuality is wrong to be so hateful. We don't hate you, or at least I don't. I will pray for you that your soul will not be lost. I pray that you find a bible and learn as I have. We were not put on this earth to live freely with no account for our actions or in-actions. I understand that may take the fun out of living a life however you see fit. We were given free will that we may sin and be forgiven for those sins. But, you cannot live your life without any guidelines according to the bible. It truly saddens me this is the way our society is going now. I just know I plan to do my utmost to be there on the right side of God and to do that I know I must live my life according to the bible. If you have read into my post that I hate homosexuals then your thinking is wrong. I haven't been hostile in my words to explain how I see things, too bad you have not tried to do the same.
In answer to the question about divorce. The Bible states the grounds for divorce is adultry. If you get a divorce for any other reason it is wrong, if you want to remarry.
I would like to know what a lot of you would think if the college started a group for the KKK.
This is for the group that thinks the gay part is ok.
Wow, looks like the WAB nailed another "rumor". If you want to know what's going on around here you got to read the blog.
I, for one, am extremely proud of the men and women (or boys and girls, if you prefer) that started, and have joined the alliance- because they're standing up for what they believe in, and they're proving that nothing that ANY of you have to say is going to change that. Obviously, none of you have discouraged them as far as the alliance is concerned, or in the lives of the ones in this organization, you keep putting them down like it's going to make a difference. It hasn't, you can stop trying now, you won't bring them down, especially when you find that you probably know some of the students that are in it. If you can't accept them for who they are, you're obviously not worth the time of day to any of them. What matters is the fact that Martin approved of their organization, and is letting them do it- regardless of what ANY of you think about it, it's a done deal. They worked hard to get where they've gotten, and it's WELL deserved. If only you people knew the boys and girls in the group, you would understand how important it is for them to do what they're doing, and how amazing it is for them to be able to do it in the way that they are. At least they're proud of who they are, maybe some of you should find one or two of the people in it to help yourselves out, because you apparently really need someone's guidance, you're not doing well enough on your own. You'll accept it one day, hate mongers, and for those that don't, you have NO idea what you're missing out on in those wonderful people. :)
In response to the post about the KKK: As long as they respected my rigths and beliefs I would not care what kind of organization they start or where. Personally I believe everyone has a right to his or her opinion. The GSA does not ask anyone to support them. They do not force their beliefs down other student's throats. They do not march in the streets loudly procaliming their way is the only way. They seek to promote equality among the students. Is that so wrong?? Are they not human? If you cut them will they not bleed? Speaking as someone who has seem first hand the perversions that can take place within church walls, supposed refuges of tolerance and love, and I don't just mean the Catholic church either, my molestor was a Pentacostal preacher, I'd have to say I agree with the whole throwing stones thing. For those of you who don't think that the "gay part is ok" how would you feel if the rest of us decided that your churches needed censorship? Or your schools? I agree that religious beliefs should not be a part of this discussion because the perpetrators of organised religion can be just as corrupt as the rest of the world. As for "living according to the gospel" I was taught in Sunday School, Vacation Bible School and church services that the gospel is the books that were written about the teachings of Christ. Christ doesn't say anything about destroying cities. All he teaches is love and tolerance. WOW...what a novel concept! (That last sentence was sarcasm in case you didn't recognise it)
Clearly as educated as some of you posters are, you miss the point. I for one am not a hatemonger. Wasn't raised that way. My point is I have an opinion too and have been a supporter of MMC. No longer will I be because of the cause being championed by some of the students and faculty. I do not have to financially support an entity I believe uses donations in a way I believe is morally and wrong. I would hope that those who choose this lifestyle would find through Christ that the lifestyle is wrong. However, to be called a hatemonger because I offer an opposing view proves you to have a very shallow mind. I live my life by my core beliefs in Jesus Christ and his teachings. Because I choose to offer an opposing view to lead those I feel going astray does not a judgmental person or hatemonger make. Those of you educated folks should know that right?? I think what upsets your applecart is you want a life with no guidelines. That is not the life Christ has intended us to live. The bible teaches us more than being kind to our neighbor. There are the ten commandments as well as many other teachings. We are not to add to or take away from the bible to suit our lives or lifestyle. When someone points this out to the non-believers in some of the teachings of Christ, we suddenly see defensive attitudes. I on the other hand stand strong in my religious beliefs and core values. As much as you may want to bash and call names, you will not shatter my belief in Christ and what I have learned through reading and studying the bible. I wish for a better dialogue free of the hateful speech being spewed by those who oppose my views and those who feel like I do. You see, I don't feel the need to call names and belittle. Love and tolerance you say? You honestly believe God would tolerate what is clearly laid out in the scriptures that we are not suppose to partake in, all for the sake of being popular,fitting in? We all are going to account for all we do in this life in the end. Ask yourself...do you think you are living your life as God would want you to? We are all sinners, but we have the opportunity to learn God's word, ask for forgiveness, repent be baptized and live our life according to how God wants us to. He judges us in the end. Not me or anyone else. We all need to think. God's word supersedes all else.
I am a student at MMC and I am also gay, I am glad to see that Martin has a GSA, To the person who wanted to know why something like this exists, I say it is a supportive group of gay and straight people, who want to see equality for everybody. It is NOT recruiting your so called "christian" children, which could be doing god knows what when your not keeping a constant eye on them. I am also appalled at the stereotypical comments that I have seen on here, I am not a "flamer" and I don not have any alternative motives, I am just trying to be happy while being who I am. If you don't like it, fine. Find something more productive to do with your time that bashing people, and organizations that you clearly have no idea of how they operate. Thank you for the people that are on here that actually understand and are not afraid of something you do not understand.
To Mr. Barrett,
I find it funny that one man can give his opinion of what is right and wrong, when if a gay man(or woman) tries the same approach they are met with anger.I find it a bit strange even in this day and time that someone like you takes time out of his day to scrutinize people that have done nothing wrong to you. You sit in your perfect world with your white shutters and two big trees on a corner lot, and think you can wave your finger at people... How perfect of a man are you?
I am going to make this post short and sweet. Question, what if your children were the ones being ganged up on and persecuted for being homosexual? What would you do if that were the case and your family were christian? What would you do exactly, because from what Im gathering is that most likely cast them out as a black sheep of the family. I mean really, grow up and allow people to live their lives.I mean honestly some of you posters are just here to instigate an argument and other are actually attempting to force religion without having to really say it. So please go and worship your god(s) in the corrupt religious factions and let them the homosexuals or rather MY FRIENDS do what they want.
Someone mentioned divorce and made the suggestion that society doesn't get upset over that like they do homosexuality. Well, from a Biblical standpoint, both ARE "Pearly Gates" issues. But it seems anytime someone points this out and particularly with respect to homosexuality, that individual is accused of being homophobic, a hater of gays, and judgmental.
It's sad that, in our liberal world, attempts are made to make people ashamed who still stand up for Biblical teachings and the word of God. It's even sadder that so many have become so enlightened and to the point that they scoff at Christ and his teachings.
Well, I neither hate nor fear homosexuals. And no matter how you try to sugar coat it, homosexuality IS an abomination...IF you believe the Bible.
I'm sorry if that offends some of the more "enlightened" and progressive thinkers of today, but the Bible hasn't changed. Interestingly, the Bible even talks about how God will, in the end, destroy the wisdom of the wise. It will be made as foolishness. I hate it if that offends some of you who think some of us are being so judgmental. I think you know better or at least did at one time in your lives.
JAT says:
Is it not amazing that the Bible, the source of all truth and wisdom, was wriiten exclusively by men. and, that men dominate the "christian" religions throughout the world; until recently. is it also amazing that the content of the current Bible was decided by a conclave of men. This conclave decided what gospels and othet writings would be included in the Bible as we know it today.
Where is the input of women? Much like Giles County, women are subserviant to men. Only men "know" the truth and have the wisdom to influence others.
JAT
Did you know that there are people who are trying to limit what my preacher preaches? They want to make it a crime if he preaches that a homosexual lifestyle is a sin! Did you know if this law passes he could be jailed for doing so? Do you not think that is infringing on a Christians rights? Look up HR 1592 and HR 254 introduced in 2007 and has been introduced in 2009 as HR 256.
I am not a homophobe nor hater, I have several friends and even family members who are gay. That does not change the fact that I believe morally it is wrong and a sin. Homosexuality is no greater or smaller a sin than any other-in the Lords eyes they are all the same. The difference is that homosexuals put themselves out there in front of the world for approval of a lifestyle that Christians are taught is wrong. I get tired of hearing about gay rights. Where are my rights to bring my children up in the fashion I was taught? Why do I get looked down on and called a hate monger just because I believe being gay is a wrong? When do we a Christians get the same consideration that homosexuals are asking for? You say that lifestyle is not pushed down our throats, I say yes it is, everywhere you turn something is being said about gay rights. You have the same rights I do. Why can't gay people stop pushing for approval of something we believe stongly against? You asked why can't we turn the other cheek, why can't you?
Someone commented on this blog that our children could be doing worse things than being involved in a group that are gay/lesbian. Well, that is where our thinking is different. In God's eyes, one sin is as bad as another. Not to be sarcastic or condescending but, that is how much you really understand about what the bible teaches us. The point here is moot with those of you that believe homosexuality is okay. I have not heard a single person post on this topic words of hate or name-calling in order to make their point and exercise their right to free speech that you so valiantly defend. However, we have been labeled as people with closed-minds, homophobic,haters and other names. It speaks volumes about those who you really are when you speak to people that way. You think because you attend college and are pursuing and education that you are smarter than masses. Well, I have been reading the bible since I was a child and all it took was an elementary education to understand and follow God's word. You don't live your live by what God teaches us? Well, you are among a minority in this country because the great majority that still do. A dying breed maybe, I certainly hope not for all our sakes. I certainly can respect a person's opinion on such hot topic issues such as abortion, death penalty and homosexuality. I ask you do the same. Without all the name-calling and bashing you so freely spew towards those of us who choose to live our life according to the bible. It would do you good to pull your head out of wherever it has been stuck and ponder the thought that maybe there is another point of view besides your own. What all this boils down to is that no one wants to support a Christian based college that for years has received support and donations from the local community. As far as those who are gay/lesbian in our community meeting and forming an organization,have at it. In my opinion it is an abomination regardless. I just would not want to contribute someway to the gay/lesbian alliance unknowingly.
To 8:44:
It is when your oppressive rhetoric is used to support DISCRIMINATION against me that my rights are infringed upon.
Also, you're revolting assertion that homosexuality is somehow a "perversion" is very shocking. I pity you for being that closed-minded.
And what you said is true: we are a different type of gay people today. We're not going to hide in the closet because a group of idiots chooses to hate us. And that's a good thing. Maybe we're "radical" and "militant" in your eyes, but that's because you're blinded. We standing up for equality, which is much more than you will ever do. As for me, I'm not going to let oppression against me survive. I'm proud to be gay, no matter the ignorant hatred that is working against me. I'm not going to stay in the closet.
I hear all these things about gay rights. Food for thought. If someone was to hold a straight pride march how long would it be before someone was slapped with a discrimnation lawsuit?
Enough already! Mr. Barrett you may have blown your political future on this one.
I'm one of the original members of of the group(that does exist!), and believe it or not I am straight, as well as our sponser. It's very disappointing to see that so many people from Giles County have such negative opinions about the GSA at Martin. This makes me very proud that we have started the group, because it is obviously very much needed. No, we aren't throwing the "gay lifestyle" into ANYONE'S face. We are trying to promote campus UNITY and EQUALITY. Last time I checked, unity and equality were very good things. I'm very grateful that MMC has allowed us to stand up and let everyone's voices be heard. Yes, I understand that Martin is a Christian school. I'm also very much aware that there are so many closed minded, judgemental Christians out there that are throwing the Bible in our faces(yes, even mine for being part of the GSA because I was raised in church, and i should "know better".) A GSA promoting untiy and equality is very much needed on our campus. It's a place that LGBT people can come together with each other, as well as straight people that do not judge them or hate them. Imagine yourselves being judged, hated, talked about, and looked down upon almost everywhere in your community. This is what you're doing, and I think it's very sad.
Thanks to everyone in favor of the GSA. To those that aren't, it's ok. You have your own opinion just as I have mine. And by all means, keep your money. If it's not coming from someone who wants to help support the education of EVERYONE at our school, it's not wanted by everyone at our school.
What is wrong with have unity just because you are people? Why do you have to have a label pertaining to a specific group? You are spotlighting a specific group of people, and than want to stand behind the fact the group is for unity of all on campus.
Well you all need to get busy and start a group for the male, female, disabled, elderly, asian, black, mexican, etc. It's the same old thing people who are gay want to be in the spotlight so let's form a group. If they needed a place to come together you could just do that you didn't have to make a group. It was just something to bring the fact of homosexuals being at Martin in front of the community.
Look it's not the person that is disliked it is the act. Hate the sin, love the sinner.
10:23-
Our organization is not for pushing gays into a spotlight, nor are gay people doing that in this country. We are simply not going to hide, but we and our allies are standing up equality. Get your facts straight.
Would your false opinion also justify saying that the Civil Rights Movement was just African-Americans wanting the spotlight? I would hope not.
I do not think the GSA is actually trying to push their beliefs on anyone. As a student of Martin I have not been affected at all by its existence. It is simply trying to promote equality among men and women, and equality is Biblical. I have recieved a great education from Martin that has actually strengthened my beliefs as a Christian, but at the same time has let me think and understand the Bible for myself and not just follow what is told to me. To truly understand the Bible you need to know the historicity behind it, such as; the culture, customs, language etc.
Secondly, I have to say, as a Christian I am extremely embarrassed at the way religious people handle this issue. Believe what you want about homosexuality, but hiding behind your beliefs and slinging criticisms at other people is not right. I feel that the "he who is without sin cast the first stone" story is extremely appropriate. If the woman was caught in the act of adultery then, according to the Old Testament, she should be stoned. In the same book that it condemns homosexuality it also condemns wearing clothing of two types of materials and bathing in water that is not moving.
I think people get so stuck up on this one issue that they forget to look past their issue and see the person. Homosexuality is not the end all be all of Christianity, but Love is. Using the Bible to dictate how others believe infringes on their inherent human rights, and also contradicts the very free will that each of us is given. Also, using semantics to claim that you aren't judging because the Bible says its wrong is still technically a judgment, regardless of if the Bible says it.
Simple minds, are definitely for the win. Just saying.
To Alliance Secretary-Pity me all you want. Call me closed minded for calling your lifestyle a perversion. That's your opinion and you're certainly entitled to it. Now, go google "Folsom Street Fair Zombie".....and tell me with a straight (pardon the pun) face that homosexuality isn't a perversion. Sorry, but you're not going to find a majority of people, Christian or otherwise, that can look at those pictures and think homosexuals are anything but SICK.
And I'm not saying that there aren't all sorts of sexual perversions practiced by heterosexuals...I'm equally appalled with pop culture's elevation of celebra-sluts. But for the most part, you don't see heterosexuals marching in the street with their flags demanding equal rights. Why can't you just do your thing and shut the heck up about it? We don't care what you do and we sure don't want to constantly hear about it. Why do you have to be so "in your face" and militant? I frankly think you want attention and thrive on controversy.
We don't know each other, and for all I know you may not fit the stereotypical "limp wristed" male or the "leather bar" male. You may be a lesbian for all I know. Again, I'm sorry if my rhetoric offends you, but I assure you, my eyes are not blinded. They are VERY open to the cultural ROT that liberals have foisted on our once great nation. The controversy of so called "gay rights" is merely a symptom of a much greater problem....a nation that has turned her back on God and the Bible.
At any rate, I think the salient point of this blog is that Martin, a Christian college, relies on financial support from their alumni, the community and churches. By supporting a gay organization, Martin risks losing support from Christians.
To the 7 Oct 2:37 poster.
You state, “I find it funny that one man can give his opinion of what is right and wrong, when if a gay man(or woman) tries the same approach they are met with anger. I find it a bit strange even in this day and time that someone like you takes time out of his day to scrutinize people that have done nothing wrong to you”.
Other than the initial topic posting and the post where I denied posting unfounded rumors I have not written on this thread. I have not given my personal opinion of what is right or wrong on this subject. If you think I can give my opinion about a subject without facing some of the same anger you claim to have been met with, you obviously have not read much of this blog. Anytime a person, regardless of who or what they may be, puts their opinion out for public response they are bound to be met with many types of reactions. Some angry, some stupid, some groundless some valid, all types of responses because there are all types of people. If you can’t accept that reality you better keep your opinions to yourself because you are going to face opposing views, expressed in any number of ways.
Now, what is someone like me? Do you know me? How did you come to know what kind of person I am? Isn’t your statement as judgmental as what you claim others have done to you? I’ve not described you as any type person yet you know what type I am, amazing.
You state, “You sit in your perfect world with your white shutters and two big trees on a corner lot, and think you can wave your finger at people... How perfect of a man are you?”
If you are trying to intimidate me with your comments about where I live, it just won’t work. I have never made a secret of where I live or who I am. I welcome you or anyone else to stop by and actually become knowledgeable of the type person I really am and see the perfect world I live in and what a perfect man I am (sarcasm intended for the perfect part).
That house on the corner lot with its two big trees and white shutters came at a cost. Sixty five years of living, fifty five years of work, twenty years as a soldier and over twenty as a minister. Sacrifices, hardships and pains you can’t even imagine at your tender age. Does that make me special, certainly not? Many have made far greater sacrifices, endured greater hardships and experience continued pains I can only imagine at my tender age. Allen Barrett
Part one of two
Part Two Of Two
I am of a generation that for the most part was taught to love and defend this country and our way of life. Over the years I developed a set of core beliefs that I hold too. This, many times required letting go of things I had been taught as a child; traditions, customs, beliefs that could not be justified.
These guiding beliefs include many things from the Bible that define right and wrong behavior. The Bible clearly defines homosexual behavior as an abomination to God. There are many other things the Bible defines as just as wrong and certainly we commit many of those wrongs each day. Here’s the thing, because we do wrong does not mean God loves us less anymore than we love our own children less when they do wrong. The wrong behavior simply damages the relationship of the child with the parent. You’re wrong to think what you do doesn’t hurt others. Every time we damage our relationships with God people suffer, the individual and those who love that person. God gave His Son to repair that relationship. Whether we take part in that restoration or not is up to us individually. No one can force that decision anymore than they can force anyone to only do right.
For many, homosexuality is wrong and will never be right but that does not mean they are justified to mistreat a person because they believe them to be homosexual.
On the other hand it is just as wrong to try and force people to accept homosexuality as an equal lifestyle with heterosexuality.
When people feel forced, regardless of the issue, they tend to become more emotionally animated.
So for me the bottom line is this, homosexuality is a sin to God and wrong in the eyes of most people, plain and simple, but it is not the end of the world and should never be allowed to stand in the way of loving the individual or seeing their equal value and worth. Allen Barrett
11:38-
I am shocked that you are so archaic and narrow minded that you view homosexuality as a sickness. Could you possibly get a more modern understanding of sexuality? A little research may help you actually enter the real world, not your hypocritical Ivory Tower. I don't care what porn sites you can drag up, that does not account for the true spectrum of the gay community. It's alarming how your ignorance can justify that example.
Also, you do not see heterosexuals marching in the streets because THEY do not have rights denied them. You're the oppressor, no need for a parade.
It's outrageous to say that liberals are the ones pushing gay rights on the nation; let me remind you, our nation is built on equality- that's something EVERYONE should stand for. I'm grateful for those "pushing" equality.
And yes, you WILL hear about it from me, a proud faggot (flamboyant, limp-wristed, in your face) until I get some equality. Again, there's no use in you trying to keep me in the closet- I will not hide for you. (Also, using stereotypes shows weak intelligence.)
Reminder: This country is based on Freedom of ANY religion, not just yours.
Equality for what? A lifestyle you choose to lead. This is an issue that everyone is aware of because people who choose to live a homosexual lifestyle feel that because of their choice they are being discrimnated against.
Could you please tell me the rights denied you?
Ummm, for the record....the Folsom Street Fair that I referenced is a yearly "celebration" of gay perversion in Nancy Pelosi's district. (Gee, no surprise there.) I don't go to "porn" sites and the "Zombie" site I referenced is of a journalist who went undercover to expose what actually goes on at the "fair". Hard to imagine, but the mainstream media doesn't cover the spectacle for what it is. Sodom and Gomorrah ring a bell?
This fair may not represent the full spectrum of the gay communiity, but it DOES represent why we (unenlightened) Christians consider homosexuality a perversion and abomination.
I just ran into this blog and I am thrilled that this debate is finally happening on the MMC campus. I graduated from Martin in 2006 and during my time there I was totally in the ‘closet’. The mission statement of the College states that the school hopes to promote a diverse learning community that nurtures intellectual, spiritual, social and personal growth. I am so proud of the current students today for taking a stand and making Martin a safe and loving place for all people. While I attended the institution, I felt that I could not completely be myself, the man that God created me to be. It is great that students on this campus have the opportunity to take pride in who they are and develop socially. Martin Methodist will always have my financial support and as more organizations like the GSA are created, I will continue to increase my support!
i understand that everyone is going to have an opinion on this issue. you are all entitled to that opinion, so i do not mean this to sound condecending. i do not see why this is making so many people so upset though. if you're anti-gay then just don't look. telling someone over and over that their lifestyle is wrong is not going to make them change. whether it's them being "wrong" for being gay or "wrong" for not wearing the right clothes or whatever else it might be. if you don't like that my hair is not my natural color, don't look. if you don't like that a mother is spanking her child, don't look. if you don't like that two men are holding hands in the mall, don't look. why does it matter so much to everyone that every other person they consider "wrong" change their views to that of their own? people are different. get over it. you don't even have to get over it, just turn your heads and go look at something else.
"We have just enough religion to make us hate, but not enough to make us love one another." -Jonathan Swift
Allow me to say, firstly, that I find a great deal of irony in calling this blog a "free speech zone," when there are obvious stipulations. Anyone with an opposing viewpoint has been attacked. Where's the freedom in that?
As president of the Martin Methodist GSA, I feel as though I need to clarify a few things. The group does not force homosexuality on anyone. We are merely trying to provide an environment of equality on campus; this includes racial discrimination, homophobia, sexism, etc. Our purpose is to educate and provide a different perspective. We find that it is important to provide an atmosphere for our members (as well as the entire student body) of acceptance and a more complete understanding. Having said that, what exactly is the biggest issue here?
Yes, Martin Methodist is a Christian affiliated school, but it a college nonetheless. Part of the college experience is acceptance of diversity and human difference. I would like to know how many of you have been exposed to upper level education? There is a clear correlation between higher learning and open-mindedness. Regardless of a religious affiliation (or lack thereof), college students are forced to question their core values and beliefs. Granted, with that comes the occassional loss of faith, but that's awfully general. The professors at Martin exhibit nothing but Christian behavior. I would be shocked to know that any professor here has supported any student's "fall from grace."
I feel that it is also important to note that we're not receiving any financial support from the school. Withdrawing support for the school or cutting off financial donations will not affect our organization at all. So, it would be rather pointless for you to cut off your financial support for the school. Things for the organization are not going to change. If anything, we pride ourselves on being self-sufficient.
As far as members of the group being "home grown" (which I find to be a disgusting way to refer to one's place of birth), you'd certainly be surprised. Don't assume that, because we were raised here, we have been instilled with the same core values as everyone else. It's unfair to assume that everyone raised here is a product of a conservative mentality. We're not amoral; we have minds of our own. It's important for people like us to be open-minded, because it's all we have. Why is it, too, that the only argument existing here is centered around Christian doctrine? We're not all Christian, either. Your Christian arguments fall on deaf ears. Is there any other way, that you can think of, to support your points? We do attend a Christian school. We tolerate and accept your viewpoints. Can't you do the same for us?
Forgot to mention, Brandon, that I am very glad to have your support. Thanks for the encouragement!
In reply to "Anonymous 10:23"
If you feel that the "male, female, disabled, elderly, asian, black, mexican, etc." are being discriminated against to the point that you want to stand up and say "hey, this is not right." then please, form a group and bring it to attention that they are not being treated equally and that you will not stand for it. Go ahead. I'm all for that. But if there were a group formed for say, disabled people to come together and say that something needs to change, would you also say that the disabled people in that group are only trying to bring attention to themselves and be in the spotlight?
Do you also think that the organizations that MMC already had were started because that particular group of people wanted to flaunt themselves and be in the spotlight and that is the sole purpose of the club or organization?
And last but not least, please do not assume that you know why the group origninated unless you are personally one of the founders.
I think a Gay and Lesbian Alliance at Martin College is a great idea. Maybe Martin could expand this alliance thing and also start more alliances.How about the Fornicators and Adulterers Alliance? And what about a Liars Alliance? So many possibilities!!! It should do wonders for Martin College fund raising! You go girl, I mean guy -oh whatever....
As far as I can tell, Martin Methodist is showing this new generation the different facets of religious tolerance. This institution is showing that it is acceptable to appreciate a different aspect of the human experience, and that each and EVERY life is valid.
"You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one. But if I do judge, My decisions are right, because I am not alone. I stand with The Father, who sent me." (John 8:15-16)
God loves all of his children. Your problems with homosexuality are your own. You have human flaw that is beneath your own GOD. It seems that you have developed your own interpretation of his teachings. It is not up to you to determine what is right and wrong in this world; You are acting like God has made you an authority above ALL other men that do not see things the way you do.
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When you have a homosexual child, and you fear for their life, you would be appreciative of a group like this; you feel at ease to know that someone ( and even greater, a religious based college ) is doing something to ensure their is understanding between these different sexual identities. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't want their to be any act of violence that could happen if there was not a student social group backing this important of tolerance up.
Anonymous 3:18-
You're unintelligent comment deserves no response, but I do hope that you realize your "humor" is based on ignorance. And yes, we are regular people, and your "whatever" comment, that truly shows your stupidity.
Regardless of what the "bra burners" and liberal progressives say, the Bible IS and REMAINS the measuring stick for what is considered a sin and an abomination. If we can't accpt plain Bible teachongs on homosexuality , we might as well start burning Bibles. If God didn't mean what He said, then why is the teaching on homosexuality so clearly taught? There is no argument, unless of course you have become so enlightened that you are now smarter than God Almighty! Sin is sin regardless of how you try to justify it.
What amazes me is how smart our modern-day thinkers have become. I experienced that with atheistic and agnostic professors when I was in college. This is where we are now. But not one jot or tittle has changed when it comes to plain and clear Bible teachings.
By the way, how are women "oppressed" in Giles County and what rights do gays not have that we all have. I don't run around town shouting that I am heterosexual, so why should they? It's not a matter of hating gays; it's a matter of obediance to God. I know that may sound archaic and out-of-touch to our unl;ightened liberals, but that doesn't take away the fact that homosexuality is a sin in God's eues. He will be the judge and not you and me.
Wow! What a smart one....I believe marriage is a right shared by everyone except the homosexual.
Ding! Ding! Ding! What do we have for her Johnny?!?!
The liberal mind makes a similar argument of one being judgmental and out-of-touch when it comes to the sin of murdering the unborn. Right? That too is a sin, simply because it is murder. To illustrate, today's law would charge you with murder if you should kill a newborn...save for the hideousy of partial birth abortion. Yet, it's perfectly within the law to kill the child before he or she emerges from the mother's womb. Oh, I suppose that's judging too!
The same can be said of you. You think you have authority, when your judgment means nothing in the grand scheme of things.
You feel like you have some innate right to tell others how to live your life. If the situations were reversed, I'm sure you would be smack dab in the same dilemma.
You have not worn their shoes to know even a fraction of what it is like. I know I haven't, so I choose not to judge.
Correction: Their life, not yours. No one is harping on you about how to live yours.
Look, the Bible is the authority and not you or me. Why can't you accept that? I know you hate to hear that, but it is the truth. Can you remember a time when most people, perhaps even you, actually believed in God's word?
You are absolutely correct about one thing; what's this world coming to?
The Bible is relative to every denomination. They accept a few passages, and deem some as passive of the time in which it was written. The Bible says that no man should leave their wife except for fornication. People do it every day, but it is socially accepted, even if it goes against the Bible. There is a time and a place. I believe the Bible, I do not believe that you are special enough to have your opinions be as if they were the word of God. Divorce , like other things in the Bible, have become socially accepted, why cant you have tolerance for Homosexuals.
I never believe that this was a religious issue. Since everyone kept bringing it up, I tried to appeal to your humbleness in God’s final say, but you keep putting your opinion in.These young adults are wanting a equal chance at a life of understanding that everyone shares except them. This is the last social stigma in America, and it needs to be socially accepted.
brown eyed girl... I do believe that your ways of thinking are clouded at best. If we all turn our heads at the thing we do not feel comfortable with then we are not learning understanding only to ignore things. We must as a group of well educated college students stand up and say that even if we do not agree with this organization it is okay to be here because we are about equality. If a mother is disciplining a child and crosses the line and locks the child in a closet for days as punishment should I just turn my head because I do not agree with it? No it is the responsibility of society to stand up and say you can not do that. In the case of the GSA I do feel that they belong here and are entitled to be here. I do not think turning you head to such things is okay rather you should be willing to learn and grow as a person and accept it not ignore it.
I agree that as a Christian College, MMC should support Christian Biblical values. The Bible is very clear on homosexuality being a sin. That being said, I don't believe that most of the comments being made were intended to be judgemental or hateful. It saddens me that as Christians we are labeled as judgemental, close minded, and archaic just because we choose to follow His commands! I am so thankful to serve a God that forgives and loves me in spite of my failures. I don't believe that He judges the sin of homosexuality in differently that he judges the sin in my life. However, we are called to turn away from our sins. I think that what those of us that are against homosexuality are saying is that we know that lifestyle is wrong b/c the Bible tells us so. We do love our neighbors, even those with different religions and sexual prefernces. God loves those people as well.. but He hates the sins and choices that they are making. We are supposed to stand up for what is right regardless of the persecution we may receive from those who don't understand our deep love of Christ and our desire to follow His laws even when it isn't easy. Of course we feel like we have to speak out against a sin such as homosexuality. We know it is wrong, and we know that sin will seperate those people from God. We don't want that for them b/c we DO care about them. We have all been saved from our sins b/c of the sacrifice Jesus Christ made, but we have to accept that gift and choose to turn away from sin... not towards it. As a Christian college, MMC should promote love and acceptance as well as Biblical standards to live by. Allowing such a group to meet on campus only encourages behavior that is not acceptable to Christ. Please understand that I am not judging anyone, I have no room to do that, as my sins are many. I just want everyone to have the same relationship I have with God, and that can't happen when such a sin takes over your life. I would encourage MMC to consider that allowing this group to meet and encouraging and tolerating this type of behavior at a Christian college is misleading people as to what Christianity is... and that is truly disturbing and can have devastating eternal consequences.
Anonymous 4:15-
In this debate, it does not matter who is or isn't a Christian. Did you know that there are LGBT Christians? No, because you choose not to see that. Our organization's right to organize does not have anything to do with your religion. And no, we are not on some universal crusade to destroy Christianity. Why does our organization, or LGBT people in general, affect you, your life, or your beliefs? Exactly, it doesn't.
Well, I guess that those in our community who deny they look at this blog can no longer say that. I have been viewing and responding on this blog since it's inception. I have never seen a topic gain this many comments in such a short span of time. Obviously, some folks are looking. I would like to say that no one is hates gay people. Those of us who are Christians believe it is wrong. That is our inherent right. So, the hating can stop with the last poster who mentioned it. Putting words in others mouths, leaves a bad taste. If you are in college you should be grown enough to comprehend the statements being made on this topic. It is my option to contribute or not to an organization, college, business, etc. if I don't believe the money is going to a cause I support or believe in. It is just that simple college educated folks. Surely, you understand that. We never said we hated you...pllllleeeaase!! This college has been here longer than you have or will be. So, it isn't about you. It is about supporting or not supporting something you believe is morally correct. I personally don't believe it should be associated to the college. If gay/lesbian people feel shamed or disenfranchised then by all means don't make it apparent for all to see. I don't strut my heterosexuality all over town. Although, some do and their are labels for them as well. You choose to live a life that is not mainstream you subject yourself to the criticisms. Can't be much clearer than that. Gay/lesbian people made a choice to live that lifestyle. You can't make us accept your lifestyle any more than we can silence us for our beliefs. And, guess what? We are not trying to...it is your soul. Do with it what you want. It is just a hardcore, bad decision to think the older generation and long time businesses will continue to support a school that welcomes homosexuality. That is just a fact. Why not focus more on being accepted as a person, rather than your sexual preference. Come to think of it..I have never felt I needed to form an alliance for heterosexuals in order to fit in or get through life. Something you should think about. If you need that much support to fit in then perhaps it is you that has the problem.
My Bible tells me that God destroyed (killed) Uzza because he so much as touched the Arch of the Covenant. God also killed those well-intentioned worshippers who offered a strange or unauthorized fire. Why can you progressive thinkers not see by the examples that God means exactly what He said. Why don't you have a group to form at MMC for the child molesters, the gamblers, and on and on?
You who are in favor of a college promoting or sanctioning Biblically wrong activities on campus have only the argument that those like me are trying to judge you or to tell you how to run your lives. That is not the case at all! Was there a time in your life when you too believed as we do? Or have you become progressive and enlightened? I don't think so.
The Bible also teaches that, if we are not careful, God will send us a strong delusion that we would believe a lie. I think that's what is going on with regard to this situation. Wrong is wrong, no matter how you try to smooth it over.
4:31 - first of all, i am working on getting my PhD. i believe that qualifies as being well educated. secondly, please tell me where i said i do not think the GSA should be at martin? maybe i am having a short term memory lapse, but i do not remember saying that. i am very much in favor of this group! i shall state what i meant more clearly. i am simply saying all these closed minded sycophants who believe they can tell the world how it should be because they think only they can be right need to find something else to "fix." world hunger or homelessness perhaps. maybe a cure for cancer or even just a simple cure for the common cold. in comparison to those, a few college kids having a new group to intermingle in seems like a small concern.
Well lets talk about things that are natural-the human body was formed in a way that would make it possible for two people of the opposite gender to procreate with out assistance from anyone or anything else. If it were intended for two of the same gender to procreate there would only be one sex gender. It doesn't matter if you believe in God, Buddha or whatever the proof is in the pudding you can't procreate with a being of the same gender without the assistance of a third party. It's unnatural.
4:01: Why bring up abortion in response to a blog about a gay/straight alliance? It seems that you are really reaching to validate their arguments. You cannot generalize that way. Not all liberals are pro-choice; not all Christians are pro-life. This is a clear indication of you just trying to add fuel to this ridiculous fire.
You HAVE to stop generalizing. Seriously.
Forgive me for my bluntness, but it is hard enough for a gay person to rationalize his/her lifestyle without all of you throwing this Christian ideology in their faces. Homosexuality is not a choice. I speak from experience. I despise the argument that homosexuals use the label as a crutch. I assure you that I, for one, hate any added attention to myself. I would love nothing more than to blend in. These Christian arguments make it really hard for homosexuals to feel... less than isolated; or even human. Is that your goal?
Great post Stacy!
5:11 That is a fair argument. I'm not sure how it had to go with the new group, but a fair argument nonetheless. But what if the parties involved have no desire to procreate? And just for the sake of the argument, what about women that cannot get pregnant at all? Technically, it is natural for them not to be able to have a child either.
I am a student at MMC and am glad that there is and Alliance on campus where one can learn to not be so ignorant about the issue. I am a Christian and attend some of these meetings and no I am not homosexual but love them just the same. I believe the Bible hinges on two things 1.Love the Lord with all your mind heart and soul.2.Love you neighbor as youself. You do these two and everything else falls into place!!Must be alot of you folks out there hating yourself! God said let there be ignorance and there was religion.
When does not agreeing with someone else become hate? I don't agree with what drug dealers do does that mean I hate them? I don't agree with what our government does, does that mean I hate them? No, it means I don't agree with what they do. This situation is no different. I don't agree with a homosexual lifestyle but I do not hate them. Why are you all so dead set of accusing someone of hate just because their beliefs are different than yours? And it's not judging someone who thinks differently than you do. You need to step back and do what you are asking everyone else to do, be understanding. I have not and will not ever put someone down for being different but there are also somethings I will never agree are right that does not make me a hater or judgmental.
We are suppose to live or lives in a way that is pleasing to the Lord our creator and that is what I strive daily today.
Be respectful to others even if they think differently. I don't understand why you take such offense to someone offering a different view to yours.
JAT says:
WOW!!!!
MMC is finally coming out of the shadows. Go, Go, Go,
Maybe the simple minds of the citizens of Giles County (not everyone ahs a simple mind) will be enlightened. There is much more to this world than what is spoken in your church and while you get drunk with your buddies.
Giles County is not changing and will not change????
That is what many of those in "Power" say (Commissioners, elected officials, etc). Gile County is a totally different place than it was 10 years ago and it continues to change.
MMC is a jewel!!!!!!
The students who attend MMC may be right or they may be wrong; only time and their respective futures will tell.
Imagine.... one of these students beconing a Commissioner or County Executive or Mayor of Pulaski????
What then ??????
It can't be any worse that what we have now.
To you students who have the "guts" to exert your feelings and thoughts ..... never give up!!
JAT
I think we could all approach this with a little more grace. On the one said, yes we all know what the Bible says I don't think there is any reason to repeat it. On the other side, someone who disagrees with you on this issues is not by definition ignorant or hateful. Although, I think there have been some tinges of hatefulness in some posts.
GBLT persons are not out recruiting and knocking on doors like Jehovah's Witnesses. They simple want the right to assemble and gain support from one another. I don't see a problem with that. It is not sponsored by MMC and so removing donation money would only hurt other students. There are some disturbing facts among young GBLT persons including a higher suicide, drug use, and depression rate.
A question for the Christians: can we love someone whose lifestyle we disgree with? I really believe that is what Jesus did. He offered love and not condemnation. I think we should do the same.
6:06
Great Post
6:06
Terrible post.
God commands us to love others but not the sin. It's still sinful, regardless of the whitewashing you give it. Loving the sinner and hating the sin doesn't make the sin go away, does it?
Quote me Book Chapter and Verse where it says that.
Again MY Bible says "But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us." Note the words "still" and "sinners".
Also 1 Timothy 1:15-16 "Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his unlimited patience as an example for those who would believe on him and receive eternal life."
I am not talking about whitewashing anything but approaching another human being in love and not condemnation even when that person is a sinner. That is called grace my friends And guess what? I am a sinner too and so are you and so are the rest of the 6 billion people living on this planet right now.
I've been watching this thread go on for a whole day now and I think its about time I stop watching and say something - knowing that it wont matter that much.
Firstly I am a Christian, a proud Christian who has been serving God for more than half of my life. I was raised in a southern baptist Church, a Southern baptist Community to be frank. I've taught Bible classes on Christian doctrine, and I have probably taught it to some of you posters children.
Be that the case - I have never been so ashamed in my life. Not of my faith, but of the followers of my faith who have said some of the most abominably horrific things you've said in this forum.
I am a student at Martin Methodist College, and a well known Christian Conservative at the school - but I am also a member of the GSA. I do this because Martin Methodist College IS a Christian school and quite honestly the only thing that is worse than having a GSA at our Christian school is being a Christian school and telling those students that they cannot be here because they are gay! Would Jesus turn sinners away because they were sinners? Jesus prefered to be in the company of Sinners rather than believers because he had a job to do, and people - WE HAVE A JOB TO DO AS CHRISTIANS and I assure you that it is not to penalize a group of college students!
I don't know who is right and who is wrong in this argument because that is not up for me to decide. I know that my homosexual friends are not bad people, they are not predators, they have never tried to make me believe that they are right and I am wrong, they've never tried to force their beliefs on me, or thought ill of me for believing differently than they do.
If I do know one thing its this; think really hard about who God would be disappointed in? The people you are accusing, or the accusers who are using His name to pass judgement on other people?
6:54
Look, nobody is saying your homosexual friends are bad people who try to force their lifestyle on anybody. Why do you keep misunderstanding the fact that we are all supposed to love the person and hate the sin...just as God does. Be ye imitators of me, right? Furthermore, NOBODY is trying to pass judgment on them. God's word will judge their sins just as it will mine and yours!
Please try to understand that it's not me or anyone else trying to judge you or anyone else. The Word takes care of that, and we all must one day give an account. I don't know what else to say to make that any clearer. But don't take my word for it. Grab a Bible and start looking for yourself. Then you will see that homosexuality is one of many sins that God hates. Why? Because He hates sin. More than that, if you will get a good concordance, you will also discover that the only righteous judge is in fact God. Maybe you will get mad enough to start reading.
I am still waiting for the Book Chapter and Verse of "Hate the sin and love the sinner".
Lots of words & BS to define a "lifestyle". What is it the defines homosexuality? I love many people, but it doesn't involve sex!
What is it? If I plug a lamp plug into a wall socket, the lights come on. If I plug into a plug nothing happens - it doesn't work. If I try to attach a recepticle into a recepticle, nothing happens.
What is it that defines this perversity. If you stick an appendage in a light socket & you get your hair all frizzed up & tingles criss cross through the body, is it worth it?
What is it??? Can't remember what Freud said, was it the lumph phase - something about the attreactio to goo in the diaper???
What is it - can you define your magic moment & reason for being.
Maybe like MMC has gone to pot & we're fixing to make fecalism the in thing - a new noncept of plugging one end into the other - the ultimate in recycling - out one end & in the other. YUCK!!!
AIDS & HAPPYTITUS = all in Perverse City
Thank you 8:09 for that inane, incoherent rambling.
That's the most ignorant thing I have ever read, 8:09.
7:57
Why waste time waiting? Grab you a Bible and a good concordance and look it up for yourself.
First of all 8:31 that is the answer from someone who has no foggy clue. The answer dear children is that those words appear no where in the Bible.
Good grief 8:09. WTF was that anyway? That has to be the most incoherent, imbecilic commentary of this entire thread. Frankly, if I were to guess, I'd say you're actually a pro GSA college student sitting in your apartment smoking a little weed. Whatever...it didn't add ANYTHING to the debate.
Part 1
Several of you have asked for specific verses regarding this issue and God's love and anger towards the people and the sins they commit. Here are just a few... hope it helps.
God hates sin, but loves the sinner... is not a specific verse in the Bible... there are MANY that support this belief. Here are a few:
Deuteronomy 12:30-32
30 and after they have been destroyed before you, be careful not to be ensnared by inquiring about their gods, saying, "How do these nations serve their gods? We will do the same." 31 You must not worship the LORD your God in their way, because in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the LORD hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods.
32 See that you do all I command you; do not add to it or take away from it.
As this verse states, there are things that the Lord hates!
Specifically speaking of homosexuality:
Leviticus 18:22
22 " 'Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
However, God does still love us:
Romans 5:8
8But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Ezekiel 18 is a great chapter about God calling us to turn from our sins... here a few verses to consider:
Ezekiel 18:21 "But if a wicked man turns away from all the sins he has committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, he will surely live; he will not die
Ezekiel 18:31 "Therefore, O house of Israel, I will judge you, each one according to his ways, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall.
Ezekiel 3:20 also reminds us to warn others against their sins:
"Again, when a righteous man turns from his righteousness and does evil, and I put a stumbling block before him, he will die. Since you did not warn him, he will die for his sin. The righteous things he did will not be remembered, and I will hold you accountable for his blood.
the good news is: it is never too late and his love and grace and forgiveness are unending... if we just turn to him...
John 3:16
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[a] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
I'm a freshman @ MMC & the word that has been circulating around town about the GSA on campus is TRUE! Hate to let you all know it(since you are all so upset about it). I am a member of the GSA and am not gay,lesbian,homosexual, or anything of that sort. I attended a meeting that we had a couple weeks back and had never been so informed on how the church felt about gays,lesbians,etc. My best friends are gay and they are just like you and I. They aren't dumb, retarded, or idiots. THEY ARE JUST LIKE YOU AND I. Really now people.... the GSA isn't just made of all the gays/lesbians... Its a campus wide organization that has open meetings for anyone to come to & I can honestly say its about half/half on the ratio of gays & lesbian to straight people that signed up for the GSA. I can almost guarantee to most of you adults that are posting all these horrible things on this idiotic blog that your children have at least one gay friend. What are you going to do? Tell your child that he/she can't be friends with that person because they are gay? It's not right... I was never raised to judge someone else because of the life they choose to live. It's their life and they can live it the way they want too. Your comments preaching to them about what the Bible says and how it's "wrong" is doing absolutely nothing. They didn't just roll out of bed one morning and decide they were gay. They've all known for some time & its just up to them when they decide to tell people. I think the GSA is a wonderful group to have at school and shows how far Martin is coming along and how they are trying to have unity on campus. People get over this because I don't know if you've realized or not but the gay & lesbian community isn't getting smaller, it's actually growing more and more everyday. What would you say if one of these students that your all bashing on is someday your child. How would you feel then? Come on people...it's called a little respect. We've done nothing what so ever to the community & haven't bothered anyone so why is this group getting bashed on so bad. I also think its funny how there are only like a total of 5 names on this out of 99 comments...if your going to talk all this bologna about human beings why don't you at least own up to it? Fake people in this town is all it is that love to stay caught up in everyone else's drama. People don't you have enough to deal with on your own in today's society? Back off.
Part 2
Those of us who choose to follow Him, also choose to follow His commands. This does not mean that we don't struggle with sin. I KNOW from experience that if there is a part of your life that you desire to hold onto...even though it is not acceptable to God, your relationship with Him will suffer. You can pray that God will take away the sinful desires from your heart,and believe me... He will do that for you!!!
I still maintain that as a private Christian College, MMC should show love to all students regardless of their lifestyle... however, they should not show acceptance of their sin by allowing an organized group to meet on campus. I feel that only encourages the behavior and sends the message that the Christian faith supports it and we cannot support it because it goes against the commands that God has clearly given us in His Word. If we encourage this lifestyle as Christians, for other believers, we may cause them to stumble in their faith by leading them to believe that God accepts this behavior and He does not. I don't want it to be on my conscience that I have not told others that God says it is wrong. I have share the truth. If you all reject it, that is fine too. You are not rejecting me, or just my opinions, you are rejecting Christ and His laws. You can have all the knowledge and truth and still choose your own path instead of God's path. He gives us freewill to make those choices.
Matthew 7:13-14
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
I hope you choose the narrow gate. Know that when I speak out against these things, I do so in love... not hate... because I DO care about others and their relationship with Christ. May you all seek Him and find the truth and know His unending love for you. It is far greater than any earthly desire we could ever have!!
Bravo Stacy! Well said, well said.....
Caleab T. Farley (Member of the Alliance, student at Martin, Homosexual, and above all child of God.)
I would like to start by saying how sad this entire debate is world wide. I am sure God must be looking down wondering why he made such arrogant, distasteful, and repulsive beings, which include homosexuals and strait people.
Second I have seen so many posts about Sodom and Gomorrah, and I would like to say that it was not a town of homosexuals; it was a town of wicked people all around. Furthermore the lines that direct it to homosexuals (bring out those men to us so we can rape them) is not implying that they want to sexual rape them but to rape them of there belongings. I have done my own researcher on this; witch includes reading books, and personal interviews by both doctors and preacher.
As an ending note and as a fallow up to my first point, as much God my wonder why he made us, or my even at times regret doing so, nun the less he loves us all, he wants us to come to him, regardless of what we do who we are or why we are here.
“Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.”
No were in this verses does it say you must be anyway to not be giving what you asked, that what you seek will be hiding from your eyes, and it says if you knock the door will be open. The true beauty of Christianity is that you don’t have to be any way to be accepted, you just have to be you and love God and he will do what he feels fit with you from there.
Caleab,
You are right, God does love you... but he wants the desires of your heart to be the same as the desires of His heart. The Holy Spirit lives inside you as a true believer. That is why he wants us to be a Living Sanctuary... and to turn from our sins. He is a God of love, but also of judgement. We have to be stronger than our sins and work to overcome them:
Genesis 4:6
6 Then the LORD said to Cain, "Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? 7 If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must master it."
Jesus made the ultimate sacrifice for all of our sins. That only makes me more ashamed of the times I've failed and more undeserving of his love and forgiveness... but, I am SO thankful for it anyway...because of that, I try so hard to let go of my selfish desires and those things that I know God disapproves of... b/c the more sin I remove from my life, the closer I become to Him. That should be the desire our of hearts as Christians... a closer walk with Him... and eagerness to share His love with others. I don't want to hurt Him by choosing my way instead of His way.. not after all He has done for me. He literally saved my life and that is worth more than anything I could ever desire here on earth.
Caleab, continue in your walk with Christ and ask Him to reveal the truth to you. If you seek Him, you will find Him. He will let you know His plan for your life and He will give you the strength to accomplish whatever He has in store for your future to further His kingdom. Just put Him above all else in your life. If there is sin that He disapproves of, He will let you know it, and help you to change it. God has the power to do so much more than we can even imagine!
This blog is doing nothing more than causing trouble. The person(s) in charge of it could do good by closing it down. It would be the right thing to do.
Stacy,
Im sorry to be blunt, but why is the truth that is shown to you right and mine wrong? Why is it that you and many others feel only what you feel God is saying to you is all that is being said? Like you said God is more powerful then we can ever imagine.
browneyed girl I was not trying to acccuse you of not supporting the
GSA I was simply saying that the responsibility to maintain society lays in the hands of everyone. Like the mother and child scene. If a person finds a situation appalling then that person not only has the right but I believe the responsibility to not turn their heads to it but stand up and do something about it. Take the government for example no one thinks that they can do anything about the corruption so they turn their heads when in reality they should be voicing their opinions how else is the country going to rise up against the wrong doings and misjudgments of this country. In the end the club will stay and the community as a whole will just accept that it is here.
Once again, this blog should be shut down. Your are only trying to hurt individuals, families, businesses, schools, etc.
Stacey...
You are absolutely correct in what you are trying to say. God does love the sinner and hates the sin. We are ALL sinners, so that should take away the accusation that we are "judging" by using the Bible to point that out. It reminds me of the verse that says, "Be not wise in your own conceits." I have often wondered if people would go back to the "old paths" in Christianity if God should strike a few dead like He did in Biblical times.
You know, there ARE mental health therapies and treatments out there for homosexuality.
to 12:01 a.m.
I couldn't agree with you more. The real good the blogmaster could do for this community is shut it down.
This is as bad as the churches boycotting Disney. There are all kinds of organizations out there but just because this one is Marting Students does not mean that Martin College sponsors the organizations. We all have gay & lesbians in our lives. Some of us don't realize it. They are in our schools, churches neighborhoods and even in our families. So what!! They are what they are, they were born that way, they did not choose to be gay. Who would choose a life that would have this kinds of reaction to it. Leave them alone. This is as bad as the Nazi's against the Jews.
Ya know it's not just Christians who have a problem with that chosen lifestyle! I know gay people and they don't go around saying "Oh poor pitiful me" or have the In your face attitude. They live a nice ordinary life where the people who know them accept them, even if they don't agree with it, and love them all the same. I am a Christian and I love them all the same I just don't agree with their lifestyle. They don't go to rallies, they don't stand up and say "look I'm gay" they understand that there are people who disagree with what they do and it does not make them defensive and they do not attack them that feel that way. I have never heard them say a defensive word towards someone who thinks differently, and yes they go to Church and they say they know their lifestyle is wrong.
And to October 07, 2009 11:41:00 PM You said"f a person finds a situation appalling then that person not only has the right but I believe the responsibility to not turn their heads to it but stand up and do something about it." Well it seems you believe in a double standard, there are those who are saying something about something they find appalling and yet are called haters and discriminators for it. For the most part the post that are against this have not put anyone down or called names they are just stating what they feel is right. That is everyones God given right to speak up when you feel something is wrong. So now you tell me who the haters are!
Seriously, you people quit quoting the scriptures like its going to change anyones mind. Its annoying first of all and for those who are homosexual and believe in the lord jesus christ probably know the "words" and seriously that comment about AIDS and Hep was completely retarded. How can one attempt to come on this forum and try to slander ones chosen right on their life and not even know how to spell??? But seriously bull headed idealists like most of you posters here are the reason why alot of homosexuals are radical or extremists as you call them. And to the comment about Folsom street fair. Guy get over it really, how can you sit there and try to justify and speculate that what goes on there is what goes on in every gay/lesbian organization? I mean really, you alone with your thoughts and comments about this issue makes me want to seriously say a few choice words, but Im going to be a big boy and not say a thing. Because honestly with your words alone you make yourself look like a fool. AND EVERYONE BE ON THE LOOK OUT FOR MY NEXT POST I WILL START RESPONDING TO THIS BLOG VIA VIDEO RESPONSES ON YOUTUBE.
Before you speak on a matter you are ignorant about, how about if you study the life and ministry of John Wesley for yourself. Actually, he would not roll over in his grave because of the matter, he would actually rejoice over the strides towards equality which have been made by the members of the community. Wesley actually got in trouble during his time for helping a man get out of jail who was thrown in because of his sexual orientation.
God uses His word to lead and guide us in our life. I believe the Bible to be TRUTH. All of it, not just the parts I like. I gave scripture references because many people seemed interested in knowing where things were mentioned in the Bible. I also "quoted scripture" because I believe it to be the word of God and not up for debate. Caleab, it is not my truth that I am talking about, it is God's truth. He has not just revealed it to me... but to all who read His word. I am not sure what truth you believe that He has shown you that is conflicting with I know His word says. YES, He loves us, YES, He forgives us, but He also gives us rules and commands to live by... if we choose to turn our backs on Him, there will be consequences. He may not strike us all dead as one poster says, but we will all be judged one day.
As far as shutting down this blog, how can that be beneficial? We should all be able to come together to discuss these issues. There are many who feel passionate about it on both sides of the debate. I will continue to speak the truth while choosing to love those who practice a lifestyle that I know God does not approve of. BUT, because I love them, I will never be able to stand back and not take action. I have traveled the wrong path in life many times, and I know for a fact that God used other people to show me that I was not doing right. I know now that they made me aware of these things because they loved me and prayed for my relationship with Christ to be restored. Maybe you are right, and all of this falls on deaf ears... maybe scripture will not change anyones mind. But, I believe we have to share his love with others, regardless of their response. We do have free will to choose. As hard as it may be in light of persecution and those who may call me simple minded, I still choose the narrow path.
I am not one that rallies against Gay and Lesbian groups. Given the opportunity, I will speak the truth in love... but I do not seek out these groups to "force" my beliefs on them. My main concern in this situation is that MMC is a private CHRISTIAN college. I believe that is should support Christian values and not encourage others in their sin.
Stacy,
you say that you believe all the Bible to be true. Does that include the verses endorsing slavery? Does that include the verses commanding women to be silent in the church? Does that include the verses endorsing the stoning of a unruly child? Does that include the verses endorsing the stoning of a person for breaking the sabbath, or for blasphemy, or for adultery? Does that include the verses that God commands the genocide of a people and the rape of the women? Does that include the verse where God commands the payment of 50 pieces of silver for the rape of a virgin? Just curious.
This is all very heart-breaking to me. I recently graduated from Martin College and could not be any prouder of the school and the progressions it has made.
In such classes as New and Old Testament we learned that the bible was written by simple men just like us. Men with their own OPINIONS and IDEAS of how their lives (so very many years ago) should be lived. The bible is not something that God sent a direct line to Peter and Paul or any other author of the letters. It was simply how those men assumed how lives should be lived and the appropriate rules to follow.
The only solidity (if there can be any) in the bible are the direct teachings of Jesus Christ.
What I have learned from Jesus is that LOVE is the only way to live.
Those of you who hate are breaking the heart of Christ more than any man or woman who might enjoy a same sex relationship.
to 6:20, please, PLEASE, do your research, there are no longer therapies for homosexuals and it is not, and has not been for many years,considered a mental illness. i am a student of MMC, a psychology major thank you, a member of the GSA and a heterosexual individual, just so we are clear, that means im straight. i am proud that the college has this organization and will continue to be a member of it until my graduation and a supporter of LGBT for as long as possible.
To go along with what Stephanie, (by the way hey Step), and the post at 13:00, were saying there are many errors in the bible such as Leviticus 11:6 (rabbits do not chew cud)
Anonymous 10:13am,
Deuteronomy 22 speaks of marrital violations and having sex outside of marriage. This is old testament law and many acts were punishable by death.
Deuteronomy 22:25 25
But if out in the country a man happens to meet a girl pledged to be married and rapes her, only the man who has done this shall die.
Regarding the payment in silver... God was speaking about if a man has intercourse with a virgin and they are not engaged to be married, he has to pay her father fifty pieces of silver and then marry her. This is in verse 28-29.
28 “Suppose a man has intercourse with a young woman who is a virgin but is not engaged to be married. If they are discovered, 29 he must pay her father fifty pieces of silver.[c] Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he may never divorce her as long as he lives.
Regarding slaves: In 1 Timothy 6, Paul talks about how masters should treat slaves.
1All who are under the yoke of slavery should consider their masters worthy of full respect, so that God's name and our teaching may not be slandered. 2Those who have believing masters are not to show less respect for them because they are brothers. Instead, they are to serve them even better, because those who benefit from their service are believers, and dear to them. These are the things you are to teach and urge on them.
I believe this relates to the employee/ employer relationship... we should show respect to our employees and employers and even though one may be in charge in that situation, we are all equal as brothers and sisters in Christ.
Numbers 15:36 speaks of stoning a man for breaking the Sabbath. Yes, that was harsh... but during these times, this was a deliberate sin and direct rebellion to God.
People want to put God in a box... make Him all love and no judgement. BUT, There are many instances where God punished people.
Keep in mind that the new testament changes so many things. When Jesus came to save us from our sins. Because of His great love and sacrifice, we no longer have to make sacrifices or face stoning b/c He took our punishment for us. However, we have to accept His gift and trust Him... then when we ask, our sins are forgiven. There will still be a day of judgement though. God is a jealous God and He does become angry when we rebel against Him.
I think many of these examples you have suggested are being thrown out there out of context.
As far as women in the church: We do have a role in supporting the ministry of the church and in teaching, but we are also told to be submissive. (Ephesians 5:22)
1 Timothy 2:11-14
11 Women should learn quietly and submissively. 12 I do not let women teach men or have authority over them.[a] Let them listen quietly. 13 For God made Adam first, and afterward he made Eve. 14 And it was not Adam who was deceived by Satan. The woman was deceived, and sin was the result.
This did not mean that women should be totally silent... but more that they should listen respectfully.
If you are really interested in finding out the TRUTH about these topics, there are many websites that will allow you to pull topics and Bible verses. www.biblegateway.com is a great one.
The Bible is full of many things, not all of the subjects are pleasing to talk about... but, that is why they are in there...because in real life, we do terrible things. God knew we would, that is why He provided His word to show us the right way... His way.
may i suggest that that anyone willing to truly educate themselves on what a true theologian says about homosexuality and the bible, go here.
http://www.soulforce.org/article/homosexuality-bible-gay-christian
Why did you only post a link that is supported by lgbt? Your true theologian is gay and would that not make him biased to the cause of homosexuals? Of course it will try to sway what the Bible says. I read the site and all I see is someone who is gay trying to make me believe the Bible says it's okay. To form an open minded open you would have to get information from more than just one source.
Stephanie, Caleab, and Britt:
I can see where you may question the authority of the Bible if somewhere along the way someone told you that it was just a history book written by simple ordinary men and reflected their personal opinions.
However, I value the Bible as the Living Word of God. It may be written by men... but they were His chosen men and it was inspired by God and it is His truth and completely accurate.
I don't wish to offend anyone on this site or cause hostility or conflict. You state your opinions, and I share the truth as I know it.
I do not believe that the Gay and Lesbian lifestyle is moral in God's eyes... but again, my main concern on this issue is that Martin is a Christian college and should promote christian values... not encourage the secular worldview.
Anonymous 6:20:
Maybe you should step out of your time-warp and realize that homosexuality hasn't been considered an "illness" since the 1970s. Also, those "ex-gay ministries" ran by some Christian groups do not count as medical treatment & don't work. FYI. There's no changing what isn't a choice.
Like Britt said, you should do your research.
Stacy,
You state, "Keep in mind that the new testament changes so many things." However Jesus himself says "“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." Matthew 8:17-18 Someone else quoted this same Scripture.
Stacy my point is that you are doing the same thing that you accusing others of doing, picking and choosing those Scriptures that you want to focus on while ignoring others. The truth is that we all do that. There is not one person, not one who adheres to every verse in the Bible. It would be impossible because the Bible contains so many discrepancies and inconsistencies. But Jesus does free us from dependency on the law and offers us two commandments...Love God and Love your neighbor. It is the simplest thing and yet the most difficult aspect of the Christian faith. Might I suggest that we all work on this for awhile.
Some of you keep harping on God's love and tend to discount the fact the He is also a wrathful God. Here's a question for you. Do you think God was pleased with the "free love" thing going on with the hippies back in the sixties? It was, after all, about love, so, according to your logic, that was Ok as well?
3:44-
That has no relevance.
Eric,
Why?
Because they are completely different. Different motives, reasons, and behavior. The gay community is not working for a culture change exclusively, and with little of that radicalism. Gays are based on rights that cannot be argued. Hippies were working on opinions and emotion. Hippies created a mystic, utopian community by CHOICE. LGBT people have not chosen to become a minority community, and therefore a cultural one. We are forced into it. That naturally creates differences.
The comparison is asinine at best. How can you compare the holy love of God with the sexual promiscuity and drug culture of the 1960s? Certainly the hippies were not engaging in love for God but to satisfy their own hedonistic desires. When I refer to God's love I mean agape not eros and if you don't know what I mean. Google it.
I speak only what I know to be the truth. Clearly many of you disagree. I don't pretend to know every verse in the Bible... nor I am hypocritical enough to say that I obey all of the laws and have no sin in my life. We all have sin. I try to look at everything in context and apply it to my life. Continuing to respond to everything is only adding tension and conflict to the blog. You all know how I feel about the situation... and I will continue to state that if MMC is claiming to be a Christian college... they should uphold Christian standards.
Stacy,
I completely agree with you. It doesn't matter what we say they will be defensive. Our job as Christians is to plant the seed and than let the Holy Spirit go to work. I will continue to pray for them and love them as I have always done and treat them with respect when speaking with them as I am commanded to do by my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Martin is a Methodist college but you do not have to be a Christian to attend so I would assume anyone is welcome by religion or sexual orientation.
Someone on here wrote it is not a choice. I beg to differ you have a choice about every action you take in this life. You either do something or you don't. We are given free will to do as we desire. I guess the word desire is the key word here.
To that I will add it is not a sin to profess to being a homosexual it only becomes a sin when you engage in a homosexual act.
ok, there seems to be a huge misconception floating around. Im am not 100% positive ,but im pretty sure, and please correct me if im wrong but Martin Methodist college is not a Christian college. They are a methodist affiliated college and get support, whether its financial or not, im not sure, from the methodist church. Martin has not been a christian college for 3 or 4 years. again, correct me if im wrong.
ok, 5:28, i agree with and disagree with what you have said. Being Gay is not a choice, there is much research to back the fact that there is very strong biological influence on sexual orientation but i wont go into detail, google it if you want to know more. i do agree that you have control over your actions but being gay is more then just the act of same-sex. as far as sin goes, sex before marriage is a sin, for gay, straight and everything in between. not to say i havent sinned, (hi, single w/ kid) but correct me if im wrong, arent we dooming our homosexuals by telling them they cant get married. just saying
4:54, i get the agape/eros reference, you rock.
I understand that it's hard to follow every single rule in the Bible, but if you're going to repeatedly use one verse (that in Leviticus) to justify calling homosexuality a sin, how about at least following those verses around that one?
Lev.19:19: Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woolen come upon thee.
Lev. 19:28:Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.
How many people out there have worn mixed fibers or have tattoos or piercings? My ears have been pierced for years and I wear poly/cotton blends most every day, so I would say those qualify as lifestyle sins. Does that make me as bad as a gay person? OR, since most people do those (along with eating pork and shrimp and not spending the entire Sabbath in prayer)does that make it okay? I would genuinely like an answer.
It's because gays are a minority that it's easier for their "sins" to be judged -after all, more people have tattoos or piercings than are gay. However, it's groups like the gay/straight alliance that are out to rectify the discrimination. Maybe now you can pick a new group to pass judgement on -like people who don't wait 40/80 days (depending on the sex) after their child's birth to have sex or women who cut their hair and men who shave their beards.
In all seriousness, someone brought up a great point earlier. The passages about homosexuality are in the Old Testament, Mosaic Law, which Christ's death freed us from. If one is Christian, why not just follow the words the man himself said...and I'm pretty sure there's nothing in there about homosexuality at all, let alone it being a sin. And if you want to get technical about it, the verses everyone is quoting from are in English, not the original Hebrew. Things have the tendency to get lost in translation -especially when those doing the translating have their own agenda.
What does the New Testament say about men lying with men, working that which is unseemingly...what about men burning one for another....it is called sin and not judging. Salve your conscience if you will, but it doesn't change one thing. Oh, but where is the wisdom of the wise?
Allow me to pose a question from 5:28's post. This person states "To that I will add it is not a sin to profess to being a homosexual it only becomes a sin when you engage in a homosexual act." This is an important point that has been missed for the most part. The verses that speak to homosexuality do so from the point of the act. The condemnation is on the act of two men specifically, there is no mention of women at least in Leviticus, engaging in sexual acts. I won't go into any further detail, we all know what we are talking about. By that logic, if a gay or lesbian couple where simply in love and in a relationship and abstained from sexual activity would that still be sinful since there is no direct condemnation except for the sexual part?
View the link to get my response
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIZRaC8o3Ow
First: Second year student at MMC, straight, agnostic, moralist, and a friend in short.
I have and always will think the small town people who do not experience the world are the most closed minded. I love all of my co-students at MMC and I am proud to say that I accept everyone. I have noticed that people in Giles county, A) can’t drive and B)are nosy and have nothing better to do that get into things that they have no control over.
I honestly think that most of you know nothing about history. Homosexuality was around long before organized religion and it has always been. When religion came to dictate people’s lives is when it went into hiding. It has always been around, especially within the church. If you are homosexual and want to go into ministry you have to sign an abstinence oath, so don’t get yourself all tore up about have a gay pastor.
Homosexuality is not an illness, but it has to do with the biological formation of the fetus in the mother. It mostly has to do with the size of the hypothalamus, because the mothers’ genes override the fathers when in creation. So there is research that proves it is a physical deformity caused by the mothers’ genetics. There is your history and biological lesson.
Second, WHY ARE WE ARGUEING ABOUT THIS? I understand that a lot of you are bible thumpers who have just skimmed and never actually read it for yourself. You only really know what you have heard. Also, it was written by man. MANY MEN (and a few women)! I do NOT believe in the stories of the bible, but I do believe in the moral teachings. Especially “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” Listen I believe there is a god, one god, who watches over our lives and that he guides us through life. Have any of you read about Native American spirituality, Taoism, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc.? While they may believe in different gods they all have the same MORAL teachings. I believe in a god, not in religion, and most importantly morals. While I know I am not perfect, I am nice, I do not shun those in need, and I above all accept everyone as they are.
Honestly there are bigger problems in this world then GLBT people. Try teenage pregnancy, murder, rape, hypocrisy (especially within the church), and I could go on forever, but I won’t. We as human beings need to shift our small mindedness and focus on the bigger problems. Like helping the millions of Americans who need shelter, or help people throughout the world who are actually worth arguing over. Did you know most of the supplies, such as food and cloths, we send to Africa go straight to the government and not the people?
I read in an earlier post about procreation and my take on that is that I do not want kids of my own. Think about all of the homeless and orphan children out there who want to have a loving home. Listen just because 2 people cannot biologically procreate, does not mean they cannot be parents. Unless all of you straight couples are planning to adopt children, who are you to say that someone else cannot have the gift of life to raise and become a parent?
People think, dear god I know that could be hard for a few of you closed minded people, but open your eyes. HOMOSEXUALITY is nothing new and my generation accepts it because we understand that love is love no matter what kind it is. Shouldn’t you?
Also, Stacy your post on Thursday, October 08, 2009 4:59:00 PM you say that what you know is "the truth". and in my philsophy class we have learned that "Truth" is different for everyone, so please stop bible thumping.
So, it's Bible thumping when sin is pointed out? Unbelievable! Well, at least we aren't stoned or beheaded for that like it was in the days of the apostles. Call it what you will, homosexuality (the act) is an abomination to God, and you more "modern thinkers" cannot get around it. I'd rather thump my Bible than to ignore its warnings.
College can be a wonderful thing, but you have to be very careful when taking some of the classes. The post about what one "learned" in a philosophy class is a glaring example of the dangers of agnosticism, atheism, and the like. I know, because I've been there and done that as the saying goes. It frightened me to think we have kooks out there indoctrinating kids with things that are absolutely wrong. Oh, how satan must be laughing...as he's always done.
What it all boils down to is that Christians(not religious people, there is a difference-this has nothing to do with organized religion) feel all the things you mention are sin! The difference being you don't have murders, or rapist, or body piercers, or even people who have tattoos all over their bodies, etc. forming groups to raise our awareness of what they do. Sin is sin no matter what. Yes as Christians we sin every day and have to ask for forgiveness and turn from that sin, and when we see sin we are suppose to try and help that person that is sinning especially if that person is a brother/sister in Christ regardless of what that sin is. Homosexuality along with many other sins is also talked about in the New Testament so those of you who think the Old Testament no longer matters you can look it up for yourselves.
Okay with that said when we as Christians do what we feel Christ has told us to do we get called Bible thumpers, religious fanatics, discriminators and whatever else you have called us. So are you not doing to us the very same thing you are accusing us of doing?
wab
And you say you don't go around stirring up trouble? This thread is a perfect example of it. You need to end this one immediately. In fact, while you are at it, why not close the blog down? Now that would be one thing you could do for the betterment of Giles County instead of stirring up trouble and causing hard feelings and division! In time, the county can heal itself of the wounds all this contention has caused. Think.
Why are so many people AFRAID of free speech? Our nation was founded on free speech.... and yes.... a generous helping of contention. Thank God our founding fathers went around "stirring up trouble" all those years ago.
Mr. Barrett, don't you dare even think of shutting down this blog! It's the BEST political forum this county has ever had!
This is in response to Random Thought's YouTube video. First, let me say that I know you were trying to do some cool effects with your webcam, but it is kinda annoying and really doesn't help you bring your point across. Second, I can understand your frustration with this whole situation, but I would urge you not to make sweeping generalizations of the people in Pulaski/Giles County. Most of the people here are loving and accepting of all persons. Don't get your whole opinion of the people from this blog. Thirdly, you criticize, and rightly so, those who pass judgment without getting to know the person. However, aren't you doing the same thing by running down the people of this area and insulting us. We are not all dumb rednecks and I don't know where you are from but I would be willing to bet that if we looked around your hometown we would find the same kind of prejudice there. Finally, I love the fact that you make it clear that YOU are not gay. If we are all equal would it really matter? I appreciate your frustration and your passion for equal rights, but just remember that sweeping generalizations and insults can go both ways.
There are over 150 messages on this topic. The sheep claim homosexuals suffer from discrimination & that's bad for sheep, as if everyone's is a sheep. Choice is discrimination! If you get up, you discriminate against sleeping! I agree, the sheep suffer from discrimination because they chose a clean lifestyle.
way back in at the 8:09 around the 100th entry, the defining acts of homosexuality were questioned, and the sheep started crying wolf; and not one would fess up to what the defining acts of homosexuality are!!! The issue remains as simple as the fact that homosexuals are male and female and by the very definition of our free society, already have the same equal freedoms as everyone else. So, what's the problem?
The problem Homo's face is acceptance of their defining acts! The root of the problem is the description of homosexual acts are obnoxious and perverse, and always have been.
The problem is compounded by "the homolite" preachings that everyone must adopt their perverse lyfestyle and teach their children to love and respect it! To that end, you organize and create an agenda to force everyone to support you perversion. That's where the good folks need to stop it.
If you think disgust for fecalism is bad here, why not take a trip to say a muslim area near the holy city and put on an exhibition of what you are all about? Muslims are so offended by your acts, they will kill you. You won't be discriminated against, you'll be pitching coal in the underworld!
Until you can define your defining moment without grossing your audience out, decent people will shun you when you promote it!
Look, all I can do is share as God has called all Christians to do. As I stated before, each person has the right to choose what he or she believes. God is there whether you believe in Him or not. I do feel like I have to warn people against things that I know are harmful to them. but I am not in any way passing judgement... I don't think anyone has a right to do that... it is God's job. I do believe the Bible to be God's word... not a history book of ordinary men's opinions. Therefore, it is sacred to me. I have never thought of myself as a Bible Thumper... just a follower of Christ. I guess you can call it whatever you want. All I wanted to do was share God's word. I have done that. Some agree, some disagree. I realize that you are not personally rejecting me... and the Bible tells us that these things will happen. I have no desire to argue about this any further. All I can do is plant the seed and pray that we will all be made aware of the sins in our life so that we can repent and be forgiven. You guys seem to think that by posting about Christian values, it is somehow a personal attack against those that choose a homosexual lifestyle. I have said over and over that I DO care and that is why I wanted to say something. It would be much easier to just go with the flow and be "politically correct", but when I have to face God on judgement day... I don't want to have to answer for all the times I didn't stand up for Him and share what I know is Truth. Blessings to all of you. I sincerely hope you will find His truth and peace in your lives.
ok, example time. my brother is in the army. he has a friend who he always worked very closely with. his friend always got praise for everything he did and the fact he was a "real army man", that was always so committed to the army, the whole nine yards, never a bad thing said. then he came out, he was gay and all of a sudden he was shunned but everyone, told he wasnt doing good enough, this eventually lead to him being discharged. tell me that his rights and the way he was treated didnt change when he came out. his lifestyle in there eyes didnt change, he was the same person he always was but now he was a fag, and that made him not "right".so dont feed me that "they are treated the same" crap. some are, most arent.
Ok, example time, I have a friend who was in the army, a heterosexual female who was showering one day with the rest of the female GI's and she was hit on by homosexual GI.
How uncomfortable do you think she felt?
What do you think should be done?
I realize I'm late to this conversation, but I'm completely flummoxed by the ignorance of many of you anonymous posters. If you are going to use the Bible to justify your bigotry, please realize that this means you will be unable to wear clothing of two different materials, prepare food on the sabbath, or eat cheeseburgers (along with endless other things that all of us do!). The message I get out of the Bible is love, and that is not being shown by many of the comments here.
I'm a 2006 alum of MMC who is proud to see the school progressing in all ways, especially in terms of the diversity and inclusiveness of the community. As someone preparing for ordination in the United Methodist Church, and currently working towards a Masters of Divinity to that end, I am proud that a Christian, United Methodist, college is living out the commitments of Christ and of the United Methodist Church.
From The 2008 UMC Book of Discipline:
We recognize that God made all creation and saw that it was good. As a divers people of God who bring special gifts and evidences of God's grace to the unity of the Church and to society, we are called to be faithful to the example of Jesus' ministry to ALL persons. Inclusiveness means openness, acceptance, and support that enables all persons to participate in the life of the Church, the community, and the world; therefore, inclusiveness denies every semblance of discrimination.
I'm proud that MMC is offering groups for persons regardless of their sexual orientation, nationality, race, gender, or any other aspect that makes humans unique. Any entity or person who refuses to embrace all of humanity cannot call themselves a Christian. This embracing must recognize that humans are born different. And difference is to be celebrated, not denigrated out of fear.
Little judgmental yourself aren't you? You do not have the right to tell someone that they can not call themselves a Christian-only God has that right!
So what you are saying is if I do something and I say I did it out of love that will make it alright? The Bible doesn't teach only love, that is the most important part, but it also tells us how to act so that we can be worthy in God's eyes. Although we fall short everyday and will continue to do so until we are called home.
This is just a small example: when Jesus entered the temple and saw the bartering going on did he not turn a blind eye no he ran them from the temple? He did this not out of hate but because he saw people defiling what was holy. With that said we are suppose to treat our bodies as they are God's temple.
meant to say he did not turn!
I know some don't believe this, but I believe the Bible was created in a moment of time by men whom we all agree are not perfect. Even if the Bible is a living document, we have to look at the factors surrounding the time period that each book was written in. Example, women being silent in the church would make sense in a culture in which the women were completely uneducated/ illiterate, after all it would be somewhat disruptive to have them asking questions continuously. Now, however, they are educated and are able to understand what is being discussed because they have read it themselves. Also, the Old Testament is the Hebrew Bible, and most are not looking at it in terms of Hebrew culture.
The Old Testament was written in time by a group of people, and although I believe in God I do not think that the Bible is infallible. I think that there are parts that are clearly ideas expressed by the people of that time period. People from every time period have different worldviews and even if you were inspired to write something by God, as soon as you put it into human language you have already put the idea in a box. The moment you write down something you believe is from God you limit it. Human language is born out of human experience, and human experience is finite. It is impossible to describe the infinite with finite language and therefore we must leave room for error.
Jesus didn't get angry because of homosexuals, but at religious peoples using the house of God as a market. People were mocking the tradition of sacrifice.
Honestly, Jesus was just angry in general.
But in all seriousness;
For those of you fighting for the Bible to be read and understood, and posting scriptures in hopes that someone is going to be like "HEY! YOU'RE RIGHT! I'M NOT GAY ANYMORE!" wake up. WAKE UP, seriously. There's nothing more ridiculous than a Christian who believes that someone can change so much just from a scripture, or through the healing powers- obviously it's not working, those boys and girls are going to be gay, and eventually ALL of them will be proud of who they are. There is nothing wrong with them, they're perfect the way that they are. If you haven't noticed, Christians, God made them too. And I believe they're doing a damn good job at proving what they're worth, and standing up for themselves.
"Shun the nonbelievers." Fyl.
True Life: Jesus; where are you now?
I think my judgment that some of the comments on this posting are in no way reflective of the Christ described in the narrative of scripture is a fair one. It's not a condemnation, just pointing out what I see. It follows that if one's actions aren't Christ-like, then those actions aren't Christian (as this term means 'followers of Christ'). Can I make the judgment that one is not a Christian? No, but I can point out where one's actions fall short of being Christ-like.
I think it is needless to even debate this topic further since our more "progressive" thinkers call those who suggest that sin is a sin go to great lengths on here to justify it. We who know and trust God on what He has said continue to embrace Bible teachings that have not changed. It's people who have become wise in their own conceits and who think themselves so much smarter and enlightened. I saw this arrogance in college professors who actually thought it archaic, backward, and red-necked to cling to God's word. Isn't it amazing?
Now we are called such serogatory names as judgmental, fanatics, Bible thumpers, narrow minded, and so on and so forth. But, the Bible hasn't changed; people have.
I do not hate people who claim to be homosexual. God commands us to love everyone but we do NOT have to love and agree with sinful behavior. Why is that so hard to understand?
Excuse me; I made a typo. I meant to say derogatory and not serogatory.
Let me throw something out. We know that a person who is an alcoholic will always be an alcoholic. Let's say that, for the sake of argument, he stopped drinking. He can be forgiven that sin if he will accept God's word and be converted. Why can't that be extrapolated to the homosexual's condition? It can be.
Looks to me like the preachers of this cult love the sin as much as the sinner. Yep, it's a common cause for a common end. Isn't it about promoting and selling the sin so there will be more sinners to cavort with? Repentance is not about being proud of your perversions, it's changing the perverse lifestyle. The Homo club is all about changing true religion and faith to embrace the abomination!
There is more spin here than anything I've seen before. All of a sudden discernment is a judicial thing called conviction. Unless your are sitting on the bench in a courtroom, you're not judging anything! Lemmings always cry discrimination when people with a brain chose not to joint their abomination If you have the common sense to identify that which is defined as an abominable sin, you'll go somewhere else to pray and learn the true teachings of God! Some of the mmc posters don't even know what divine intervention and inspiration is! If the perverts are proud of their defining acts of perversion and advocating it as goodness, you nor anyone else will change them! The parallel is the passage about not casting your seeds before swine! People who brag and broadcast about their sins are not looking for repentance!
If I discern sin, immorality, and perversion I'm not going to embrace it or participate. We make choices in lifestyle, good people shun it! If you want to be respectable, live a respectable life.
I just really want to know how many of you "Christians" auctually think taht you have done or are doing good by excluding a group of people who live and love the same as you do? The ONLY difference is that they choose to act if different ways behind closed doors. Now do we go around and hate on straight people who like different things in the bedroom? No we stay out of stright couples bedrooms so why does it matter what other people do in their bedroom?
if they were out in public making love it would be different. Get off your high horse I am sure that most of you have skeletons in your closet, we all do. Honestly why does it matter to you? GLBT are not comming into your house and forcing their ideas upon you, now are they? Ignorance is bliss and i guess Giles County is extremely happy right now.
I see it everyday on TV. Don't tell me they do not come into my house. If they wanted to live a normal life why in the world do they put it out there so everyone can see? Homosexuals have been around for ages and 30 years ago they were living together and not pushing it on others to accept their alternate lifestyle. It hasn't been so long ago all that was on the news was homosexual right to marry. I am tired of hearing that what you do doesn't affect my life. It does! How am I suppose to explain to my young children who see to men kissing in public-oh honey it's okay they are in love-society is trying to make me raise my children to believe something is okay when I believe it is morally wrong. I also believe it is morally wrong to have sex before being married, adultery, etc. So don't you even dare try and tell me I am discriminating against a group of people. I am sick of being told you just have to accept it, no I don't and will not. I will treat them as I would treat anyone with kindness and respect because they are people just like me, but I will not be compassionate about something that they have a choice about keeping to themselves(so you completely understand I am talking about their sexual preferences).
A question to 4:29, what cult are you referring to?
How insidious are the workings of SATAN!!!!!!
cosondra
Why do you have to talk down to those who embrace Christianity in the manner that you do? It's not a matter of excluding anyone..its a matter of sinful behavior for which there is repentance.
537 - As noted MMC, is embracing homosexuality - a gathering place for it - "love" of the practioner = love of the practice when you facillitate it!
You can't justify "supporting" an abomination in a Christian institution especially a Christian school that is supposed to teach in Christian manner!
What say you about the proud who boast about their "identity", lust and conquests of abomination? The love object defines itself as perversity!
What say you about taking on diverse ways and beliefs of pagans and perverts? Are they just like everyone else in your "in group"?
The rectory is becomming obsessed with the rectum! Their job is to preserve, provide, and speak the Word, not change it or pervert it! When the tongue wags in diverse directions immorality will follow!
Some of the little p-verts on here owe mommy a call. Give her the scoup & enlighten her how much you have learned about tolerance & diversity.
She's probably an old hag who needs updating on the new world order - get graphic so she can learn the moves & signs - how to snag another old hag, get down & dirty, etc.
9:37, 9:46 you are two sick, twisted, disgusting, disturbed, juvenile individuals
10/34 Nice try, but it is yourself that you describe! I'm sure you have heard the word fornicate. If you read anything in the Bible, you have at minimum an insight into fornication and abomination. Otherwise, you are like the fly on the toilet seat waiting for your inevitable rewards.
You and your radical advocates refuse to verbalize your defining homosexual acts because they are really worse than your words noted. You can't afford to verbalize the very core of what defines the only difference between you and the rest of humanity - because it is an abomination! Look the word up in the dictionary. It isn't pretty flowers with honey bees gathering pollen! It's literally flies and dung!
Perhaps, MMC has a different version of Sodom, Gomorra, Lot, & the tiny remnants of two cities hopelessly wrapped up in your cause. I;m sure you have your belief in self as well as the conclusion that the Bible was written by stupid old men and not divine revelation transmitted through a very few select men and women!!
Oral, anal, and other perverted attempts at sex are not only vile, they carry an extremely high risk of fatal, debilitating diseases such as AIDS, Hepatitis, etc. The cost to those desecrating themselves is catastrophic. The cost to keep them alive once afflicted is a heavy public burden! So you learned about condoms in preschool & know everything about it. Unfortunately for society, folks like you are still catching the diseases, spreading them amongst society, getting sick, and dying - and you want sympathy, understanding, perverted marital rights, and unending public money to pay for your perversion.
Like everyone else, I know homosexuals - if they are not in my face, I will not be in theirs. 90+% of those I know keep their private life private to themselves. I do the same and that leaves unending room to treat each other civilly, be good caring friends, and respect one another for the talents God gave us.
For a few, that isn't enough. They want to destroy Christianity because it isn't afraid to define and condemn perversity! Like it or not, the Constitution guarantees my right to be a Christian and believe in God. Any discernment or conclusion (judgment) I make about you or your belief in homosexuality is not binding upon you or anyone else, unless an official judge makes that decision. That is how it is and should be - I'm free and you're free - couldn't be better.
Christians are a very passive and loving group that helps everyone about as equally as imaginable. On the other hand, when they get to the point where they will tolerate their own destruction by wallowing in and supporting fornication and abomination, and will not fight to clean it up, God has a clear history of cleaning the whole damnable mess up, pseudochristians included. Not once ... several times! Read more - in fact read a Lot! You might actually amount to something!
I think it's time to grow up, and start embracing it as it comes.
You people aren't stopping anything. :)
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Well if my children see a heterosexual couple groping in public I explain that is not the proper place to do so, but it's a little harder to explain why two people of the same sex are doing so when I teach them that being partnered with someone of the opposite sex is the way it should be. Yes I do turn on the tv and am disgusted by what I see alot of the time-not only homosexuals but all the sex that is allowed, period. As far as me being compassionate-I was meaning in the sense I will not be compassionate about their plight because they have the same choice I do everyday-to do or not do!
That's the point sex is not everyone else's business but alot of homosexuals feel the need to enlighten everyone else about their sexuality-I don't want to know what someone is doing in the privacy of their home so why make it public knowledge. Keep it at home and not in my face.
Everyone has their own opinions and are free to decide for themselves what they want. I don't put you down for what you believe so don't put me down for mine.
I happen to believe in God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit and what the Bible teaches-just because I tell someone what the Bible teaches me doesn't mean I am trying to offend them in any way or make them change how they live, I am just doing what I am commanded to do by Jesus Christ. I am just expressing my point of view-which by the way I am legally allowed to do. It's funny people get defensive and condescending when others don't agree with what they say or believe. In most cases if someone is doing what is right there is no need to defend ones self.
You said I choose to inform you of things you either don't know or you need to be reinforced on the issues at hand-SAME HERE!
People care because we do not want to see anyone go to hell-regardless of what sin they commit. People try to make out like Christians are only concerned about homosexuals that's not so, we are concerned about everyone who is not saved. And as far as the argument about homosexuals coming just from a book(as you call it) you happen to be wrong, there are plenty of people who are not Christians that also have a problem with it. It just happens that Christians are the more vocal group because in the end we know where that lifestyle will lead along with plenty others.
You continue to live your life the way you see fit and I will do the same and I will continue to pray for those who live contrary to what the Bible teaches. And no I am not perfect or sinless I have to ask for forgiveness every day, but I strive to be all that my Savior wants me to be.
Cosondra,
Sure Judaism and Buddhism are older than Christianity itself. Do you not understand why The Great Commission was given? I would refer you to the book of ACTS in the New Testament. This should help you to see the bigger picture.
Let me make one observation here. Pardon me if I'm wrong, but you seem quite proud of your education. Well, I am equally proud of mine, even though I got it at a very liberal university. I think you have fallen into the very snare that I was able to avoid. And that doesn't mean that I see myself as a wiser person than you. What I am saying is that you have apparently "bought in" to the garbage being spread by some professors. I recall how they occasionally gave me pause to question a few things. But, you know what? I grabbed my Bible and did some digging. And then I wondered how those men with their doctorates could stand in front of a country boy like me and crack jokes about the Lord. I felt sorry for them back then, but now I have a huge resentment toward them for what they are doing to people like you. No offense intended, but a little education can be a very dangerous thing.
By the way, "thinking outside the box" doesn't negate the fact that homosexual sex is a sin and an abomination to God. And if those students you mention KNOW what the Bible teaches and choose to "love everyone" instead, it is called REJECTION of God's word. Your analogy reminds me of the "free love" concept that was so rampant during the sixties. That wasn't right either. Were those people thinking outside the box as well?
No, sex IS a real issue when it involves acts that God condemns. The new Testamnet even states that homosexuals, idolators, fornicators, etc. shall not enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
But let's look at the bigger picture. Unrepented sin keeps one out of Heaven. Will you hear any of this from some of your professors? I seriously doubt it.
To 1:59
Magnificent post! What you said about believers standing against sin reminds me of something the Apostle Paul said. In talking to a group of people, he asked them if he had become their enemy by telling them the truth. I'm also reminded of how Nathan had the guts to tell the Pharoah that he had no right to the woman he had married. Their sexual union was wrong. We can pretend those example away if we choose, but they are there and for good reason.
Still waiting for an intelligent repsonse to my post on Thursday, October 08, 2009 8:55:00 PM
As far as I know it is not a sin to just live with someone of the same gender. People of the same gender share homes all the time and there is no sin committed. As far as that goes there are couples who for one reason or another do not engage in sexual activity even though they very much love each other. Sex is only one part of a loving relationship!
853 You are absolutely right!!! The sin happens when they engage in perversion and fornication! Sadly, if two women or two men live together for any reason, including like (love) and enjoy each other in a non sexual activity way - they are label as homosexuals because of all the boasting & crap thrown out by Homos! Bottom line it's nobody's business what they do in private. I've know a lot of good people including man & woman in that situation - especially old folks who can't afford to live alone! They're not out there selling perversion!
Acacia ‘Ocampo’ Dean, straight
TO THE OPPOSERS OF GSA:
The original blog by Allen Barrett, I do not find offensive. I believe he was stating his opinion publicly, which may not be the wisest decision. As I have continued to read the comments on this blog, however, I find that many opposers of the GSA have blown things completely out of proportion (adding in topics of abortion, Folsom Street Fair, etc.).
Quite simply, learn to accept it. You don’t have to like it, but obviously it is a very common thing in today’s society to be GLBT. No matter what is said by anyone, hands of time cannot be reversed to the days where gay people hide themselves for fear of being ostracized. Let’s stick to the matter at hand:
MMC has allowed students to create this alliance, for support among GLBT students more or less, and I believe it is their right to do so.
To those who feel that the GSA’s intent is push homosexual beliefs on non-GLBT students- I do believe that each student has a mind of his/her own. Have faith in how you raise your children and have faith in their decisions.
TO THE SUPPORTERS OF GSA:
I am a supporter of my friends in the GSA. However, I see many comments from GSA supporters that are attacking Christians and opposers and using derogatory words such as “idiots” and “ignorant”. I think in this case, the adage “two wrongs do not make a right” applies.
If you want to show that the GSA is an alliance to show unity and love between all, then perhaps it’d be better to live that standard and not just say it. Try this: If someone opposes your beliefs, thank them for their opinion, because it is just that! An opinion! ACCEPT their opinions, as you would want them to accept yours instead of fueling the fire with anger and angry words. To be accepted, you must accept.
FINALLY:
“The only thing that remains the same is that everything changes.” As all things that were worth standing up for, the change WILL occur. Look at the world we live in today. Women can vote. Black people are equal to white people. We have a black PRESIDENT!!
Cussandra - Really, I don't care what you believe or do as long as you don't make me pay for it or courrupt the country so many people fought and died for.
I am tired of paying for your aids epidemic! I hate to see all the suffering it causes, all the horrible things it does to little children killed by it simply because of parental promiscuity and perversion! Sexuality is about reproduction, not destruction directly tied to the homosexual abomination. Wallow in it & drown if you want to.
I'm sure the residents of Sodom & Gamorra were thinking outside of the box when they vaporized. Might say the out of boxers in Jerrico prayed to their idols as they were blown away by mere trumpets. I'm sure you believe none of it & that's ok - your problem, not mine. Possibly someday you'll learn that the most effective teachings come in parables based on real things.
I'm sure some of you enlightened by the great obamanation of change simply want to eradicate Christianity. Consider the great hillside and the rocks of civility that you are tossing aside to change things to your liking. When you toss aside the last straw rock, there'll be none left holding the hillside! What will you do then? Things will suddenly change in a landside that will burry you and your desecration. It'll be God not man. There is an avalance of unrestrainable good change out there just waiting to turn things right side up. You nor I can't stop it. There's never a good time to mock God.
acacia
Uh, excuse me, but what we have is a bi-racial president who calls himself black. And while we are at it, consider Michell Obama. She is on record as saying she hated whites. But voters sometimes get what they deserve, right? Four years of that clown will take care of him, but the damage he is going to cause will take generations to overcome.
Just like with the O.J. Simpson trial wherein he was found not guilty, blacks didn't care then that Simpson was guilty. All they saw was that he was a black man, and letting him get away with a double murder was putting one over on "whitey." In general, black voters didn't stop to consider what this clown Obama stands for. All they saw is a black man who, again, is bi-racial.
You know I sit here reading this blog and comments from "the people" of Giles County. Let me ask you something people as a student of MMC. Do you turn a blind eye when Mr. Barret shows up and causes a scene at county meeting or when people bash this county that you so are so proud of? I am a memeber of the GSA and I am a straight man who is a Christian, God created man and women in his likeness...look around everyone is different so get off your high horse and accept it. This is ridiculous that something students created has caused such a fuss. Its a student ran club. All of you that are sitting there saying its a abomination are the very people that have caused society to turn out like it is. Deal with it the youth are the future of this county like it or not. I being one of them hope to one day actually make a place for young people to go that way they are not going to jail and doing drugs. Funny how all the older population just sits on your backside and talks about how so and so didn't raise their kids right. When you have preachers who's children are having pre-marital sex and having kids, take a look around and open your eyes before you start bashing MMC and the students. Look at your own life, your not perfect and the worlds not perfect learn to live with it. Acacia is right, white people enslaved the blacks to do their work so they could sit around and do nothing, I am a white male, my President is black like it or not and gay's have the same rights as we do. It is 2009 not 1800 grow up and show the youth in this county so respect cause we have shown everyone in this county their respect and still nothing has been done to show that the county cares about its youth. This is the whole reason the youth in this county cant wait to leave it cause it is full of hipocritical people. Deacons that sit in the church on Sunday and buying beer on Monday. Christians condemning people for decisions they have made but turn the blind eye on the decisions they themselves have made that were the same. This is a student organization, so let the students themselves take care of it.
11:25 First, get my name right, really not that hard .
Wait, you are only thinking about the white people who died. Native Americans were the first slaves in America, who were then turned around and were taught to partake in slavery by that white man, and then stopped because they found it immoral after only a few years. Oh and then wait, Europeans practicality declared genocide on them for what, the land you live on. So, yes many people died for it and most of them were Native Americans almost wiping out a race, because of the greediness brought over by Europeans and disease I might add.
How exactly am I making YOU pay for it? Did you know most of the reason that children are born with AID's in Africa is because their mothers are raped by men? Oh and there isn't a whole lot they can do because their government is so corrupt. And I would also like to point out that poverty is the number one killer in Africa, otherwise the mothers could afford the drugs to prevent the spread of disease from mother to child and feed their child. And yes in some cases the children do not form the infection in the womb and there is medicine to help prevent the spread during pregnancy and child birth. Also, so if I understand correctly YOU only have sex to have babies?
P.S. those things you talk about Sodom and Gamorra, they are stories to scare people, because they were written by HUMANS! And what are these real things you speak of? The bible is a book, written by man, just like my textbooks or fictional books, now it’s what you choose to believe out of those books that makes them a truth to you and make them real to you. Like I said earlier I believe in human moral and you can pick those up in any religion.
God created disease on this planet for a reason, to control population. That is pretty much the reason for the black plague. Honestly, as huge as our population is now, there needs to be a force that is controlling it. I think that’s what cancer is, what AIDS is, what the swine flu is, etc. god put population controllers on earth and that’s exactly what they are doing.
Did you ever think about God’s total control in the way of making us diverse and who we are as so not to stagnate the gene pool? Do you ever think the reason why God gives people cancer or a disease is because he has control over them? I am going to bet when something bad happens most of you are like “It was God’s will” or “It’s in God’s hands now”, he has total control over everything, including … homosexuality. He does what he does for a reason and who are you to question his work by condemning a group of people who he created?
may i suggest that all those in favor of or in agreement with the GSA not post responses to what those against those are saying against our group. we are obviously not going to change their minds and they are not certainly not going to change mine. let us be the first to rise about what seems to be a pointless debate and make the first step to have this forum shut down.
cosondra
Doesn't your Bible teachyou that you should not be wise in your own conceits. My my, how proud of yourself you appear to be. Yes, you got some formal education and forgot all about basic teachings and warnings from God. I think you need to go back to the old paths and stop listening to the so-called learned men who are agnostics, atheists, proponents of evolution, the big bang theory, and etc.
By the way, let's look at that big picture again. God is NOT condemning a group of people. It's the sin they are caught up in. That's why He would have all men everywhere repent.
You seem really angry about the slavery issue. Don't forget that many blacks were involved in selling their OWN race into slavery. Oh, but we can't talk about that, can we? I'll bet you think we should give reparations. I don't owe you a darned thing. I work for a living and don't depend on liberal government to give me a handout. I have a bit too much pride for that.
Mr. Barrett,
Where are you and why are you silent on this issue? You started the thread, and I think you and every other preacher in Giles County should be on here defending God's word. A few of us are taking on these liberals, but we could use your input.
Nothing a preacher would or could say will change how they think. They are taking our concern for their soul as us having hatred or resentment towards them, which is not the case at all. I just pray one day they will see the error in their ways and turn towards God before Judgement Day.
11:47 i don't believe she was talking about race or anything of that sort. i think she meant to state that change is going to happen whether people like it or not. and the fact that black people have the right to vote and the fact that we have a "black" president now is a big step from a few decades ago when such a thing was unthinkable.
stick to the topic which is GSA allowed at a Christian college. this is not about whether you like the president or not, or whether he or his wife are racist. it's the fact that he is ABLE to BE president. that was the point.
You know why attack Cosondra, in the Bible it says turn the other cheek...as well it says an eye for an eye, see you cant turn the other cheek and take an eye for a eye. Yea black people sold themselves into indentured servants not slavery. See that is where people dont look into it, an indentured servant works his debt off which in the time was his ticket aboard a boat to come to a "free" land, but instead of being free he became a slave because the person would make up more debt for said slave. And to 1:13 about why isn't Mr. Barret and the other preachers on here, its simple all Mr. Barrent wants to do is bring up the so called problems and let everyone else rip at each others throat instead of doing the Christian thing and praying that something be done to solve this problem. Cause in the end he is a man of flesh, he is just as liable to sin as the next person. I have to agree with Britt this forum is nothing but pointless and should be shut down immediately
1:13 Havent you already heard Mr. Barrett is nothing but a trouble maker? This is how he gets his kicks. What alliance is formed at Martin or anywhere else is nothing to do with any of us. Leave the students alone and let them get on with their productive lives. I say good luck to all of them now and in the future. From the bits I have read it tells me the students are much more literate than the general populace writing on this blog and thats good to see. The students are not telling you how to live your life so you shouldnt be telling them how to live theirs. Mr. Barrett only started this topic so he could fet a rise out of people. Had you not noticed his blog is/was dead. Students, let it go. You are better people than the ones writing here.
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