Has The Rule Of Law Been Suspended In Giles County?
A report was sent to me that at the Beer Board Meeting Friday Morning a Beer permit was approved for Inman's grocery in Campbellsville.
With the clear defeat of the attempt to move the distance from 1000 feet to 400 feet between places where alcohol is sold and a school or church most thought the matter was closed. Even with all the confusion created by the County Executive in this attempt to move the distance from 1000 feet to 400 feet it seemed to most reasonable people that the matter was closed. So what happened at the Beer Board Meeting that they decided to ignore the clear will of the County Commission, the plain written law and approve such a request? Is the County Commission no longer the legislative body of the county? Is the County Executive now allowed to override decisions made by the Commission? There is no law that gives the County Executive veto power over the Commission yet it seems the Commission has been ignored and the County Executive has imposed her will against the people.
Not only does this set a terrible precedent it also opens the county up for some very expensive legal battles. Allen Barrett
With the clear defeat of the attempt to move the distance from 1000 feet to 400 feet between places where alcohol is sold and a school or church most thought the matter was closed. Even with all the confusion created by the County Executive in this attempt to move the distance from 1000 feet to 400 feet it seemed to most reasonable people that the matter was closed. So what happened at the Beer Board Meeting that they decided to ignore the clear will of the County Commission, the plain written law and approve such a request? Is the County Commission no longer the legislative body of the county? Is the County Executive now allowed to override decisions made by the Commission? There is no law that gives the County Executive veto power over the Commission yet it seems the Commission has been ignored and the County Executive has imposed her will against the people.
Not only does this set a terrible precedent it also opens the county up for some very expensive legal battles. Allen Barrett
posted by Allen Barrett | 8:09 PM
114 Comments:
After speaking with a commissioner this morning it seems that the Beer Board decision was made against the objections of the County Attorney.
The Beer Board voted three, Jackson,Lovell and Harris for and two, Howell and Adams against issuing the permit.
Commissioners Adams and Howell were so disgusted that they even refused to sign the decision.
There are many questions that are still unanswered but one that comes to the forefront is why the rush that these three commissioners would be so adamant as to reject the clear warning by the County Attorney. With Commissioners Jackson and Lovell bullying to get their way once again we see personal interest being placed above County wide interest. As the Attorney stated with this vote the present required distance between churches or schools and places where alcohol is sold stands at zero feet.
Another question is since there were only three who voted to issue the permit the measure should have failed for lack of gaining a majority of the Board voters.
Allen Barrett
wab
Can you support with facts your accusation that Mrs. Jackson and Lovell were bullying? Who were they bullying?
Who is Mrs. Jackson?
That was a typo. Mr. Jackson.
why does this surprise anyone?? Its just business as usual in the 'good ole boy' club of pulaski.
2:44 Typo? Looked to me like it was another of your mistakes!
Why ask Mr Barrett just ask any one of the commissioners on that board. Ask the County Attorney, Howell or Adams or any commissioner in the room would their words be enough for you to finally see the light?
4:07
Typo.
4:13
Who was being bullied?
This whole episode should be looked into by the ethics committee. But then againwhat a joke that committee is.
4:07- What is your definition of "typo"? I believe it is a typing mistake. Further proof, issues are irrelevant, if one can zing the "messenger".
Tessie Michaels
Tessie,
Why are you trying to split hair with me over a simple typing error? That's very immature you know. By the way, if a messenger needs zinging he or she should be zinged. Ok?
Lovell and Jackson are now joined at the hip pocket. Blind leading the blind. The both need to be run out of this county on a rail! What exactly was the benefit to Lovell for getting this distance moved to 400 feet? Anyone know?
8:55 friendship is thicker than beer.
8:55
They need to be run out of town on a rail? THAT is your opinion. There are many who would disagree and think you whiners should be run out of town on a rail.
to 10:30
And so are hatred and resentment.
Why can't you understand that for Jackson, Lovell, Holt and Campbell (to name a few) the law is just a matter of convenience only when it suites their personal needs. Otherwise what is best for themselves is what rules the day.
I bet that none of these fine gentlemen are willing to consider Home Rule; thereby, allowing an ordinary resident of Giles County to have a say regarding how these Commissioners are to serve the public.
If this pans out to be true(I wasnt at the meeting) How can they vote to pass it? If so, didn't they just ignore the law that they themselves just passed? Or was this a formality due to the confusion over it in the first place. Do they have to issue it (because that's the way the resolution "read" when the permit was applied for) and then it go back to the commission where they then would decline it due to distance? I just hope this was a "pre-emtive" procedure and not ignoring the rules.
There was an agenda behind what Janet pulled. Everyone knows that. She has a big pull in Campbellsville and Bodenham. Work it Scott.
9:26
Why can't you understand that not everyone sees things the way you do? I happen to think that these people you mentioned are conscientious individuals who are acting in what they believe are the best interests of the people they represent. And that doesn't mean I am ignorant or enabling wrong!
4:07. Not sure what you meant by ME splitting hairs. Your post indicated that it wasn't a simple typo, but rather a MISTAKE like there was a huge difference and the latter was typical and a major error. And no, as a matter of fact, I don't think the messenger should be zinged; I don't believe that is the purpose of a blog such as this. I think that if one disagrees one should state his/her POV and give supporting reasons without ever mentioning another's posting, much less attack or make fun of them, and I also think that if they are intelligent enough to have an opinion regarding an issue, they should be intelligent enough to sign their name. Saying someone else is wrong does not make you or me anymore right. I wonder how many are capable of posting on an issue without ever mentioning Mr. Barrett. As an outsider, it appears that most know little about community affairs, what news they do get comes from this blog only and regardless of how they feel about an issue, their primary goal is to zing him without ever mentioning a single thought or idea about the topic.
Tessie
tessie,
Splitting hair means one makes a mountain out of a mole hill. I SAID I made a typo and never said mistake. God back and read it for yourself. I don't understand why you are making an issue of something that was so clearly stated.
I think anybody that gets on a public forum and calls names and misbehaves is worth of zinging. And that includes the one for whom you so apparently admire. Well, I don't.
I have disagree numberous times with the nasty tactics and have supported my POV with several examples of it.
Have you ever asked yourself just why so many take issue with barrett? Don't take my word as gospel. Just ask around town, and you will have your answer.
Oops. I typed God and meant Go. THAT was also a typo. And for worth, I meant to type worthy. Another typo. Disagree should have been disagreed in the third paragraph, which is another typo.
Tessie...
I went back and read my 1:44 post again, and wanted to apologize. I was just trying to make a point. I was a bit over the top on that one. My apologies for that.
Why would Commissioners Lovell, Harris and Jackson refuse to accept the clear advice of the County Attorney to wait for a State Attorney General Opinion to be issued? With their demand to vote and issue a beer permit according to the County Attorney they have essentially done away with any distance rules established by the County Commission. With their actions anyone at this time could apply for and be granted a license to sell alcohol as close as the front door of a school or church.
Why was there such a rush to approve the beer permit when just a wait of a matter of days could have
produced a State Attorney General Opinion and solved much of the problem.
I can understand the actions of Commissioners Jackson and Lovell who have well documented histories of bullying their way over others but it is very surprising to see Commissioner Harris involved in such activity.
How much will this selfish impatience eventually cost the county as we now have been put in a position where actions by either side will probably end up in court.
I wonder why there have been so few statements from church leaders concerning this matter? Have they grown so comfortable with the compartmentalization of issues that they no longer care?
Allen Barrett
I think it is very easy to zing someone when you know who you are zinging, but don't have anything to lose because you hide behind anonymous. Many gripe about Mr Barrett, whom I have never met, yet they don't put themselves or their viewpoints out there for target practice. People gripe and complain and bash this man who, right or wrong, at least tries and allows himself to be made fun of by immature people. But his biggest critics sign "anonymous", that is what I don't understand. But I am an outsider, not from here and maybe that's the way things are done. I have an idea, how about trying this, if you are going to attack someone's opinion or character and you don't pay their salary, identify yourself; if you are praising someone, do so anonymously; It doesn't take a person of high character to attack from the shadows, in the cowboy days, wouldn't that be shooting them in the back, and weren't those kind of people shunned? Just a thought.
Oh, I didn't really think the 1:44 comment was over the top, but of course I will accept your apology, since you feel one was warranted. Thank-you.
Tessie
Is it about time for the people of Giles County to start a petition for recall and banishment (from ever running again for a commissioner (paid ! ) position ) for the trio who so blatantly ignored the wishes of their peers AND the county citizens ?
I'd SURE vote for that.
Sledge
This a communicative device for the Vocal Minority and its leader.
I feel like Christian people of this county are very much aware of the actions of Lovell, Jackson and Harris and I for a fact that their un-Christian like behavior is being talked about on a daily basis.
Sledge
Seems this county charter may include a provision for recall. The situation with the Beer Board vote would have been a prime example of putting that recall vote to good use.
7:46
I think Christian people of this county are also very aware of the nasty and mean-spirited behaviors of individuals who get on this blog and attack others. These are regarded as hypocrites, particularly when they claim a relationship with God Almighty.
Sledge...
Of course the charter proposal is going to contain a recall provision. But consider who is behind the original draft. It's the same ones who claim they never meet anywhere anytime as a group to discuss their agenda for the county. It's also the same ones who cannot get elected to offices and thus have no political power. So, if I understand what might very well be happening here, this charter could be used as an alternative way to get rid of people they deem unfit. And guess who gets the job when they dismiss someone????? I would passionately work against that, because it would be just like removing tenure protection from teachers. And that is just not right.
To 7:11 Your display of ignorance (lack of knowledge) is truly a masterpiece of deception.
Those who have been involved with getting the Charter on the ballot have not done so in secrecy. A number of them sat in the Courthouse last February gathering signatures, many went house to house doing the same thing. We have held meetings, not only open to the public but have encouraged public participation and even gave door prizes to those in attendance. Not having the financial base of those who opposed the Charter we could not afford huge ads in the paper and numerous radio spots, we had to rely on the free section of the paper and radio along with this blog and word of mouth to get that message out.
The original draft you speak of apparently is the one that was posted on this blog for discussion as that is the only draft I am aware of. That was posted by a reader from Nashville and as I understand it was taken in part from Charters that have been approved in other counties. It is not the Charter that Giles County will vote on as that Charter draft has not been written and will not be written until those elected to the committee write it.
During the last county election there were people who ran for judge, county executive, highway dept., tax assessor, commissioner and a number of other positions are you now claiming that all those who did not get elected are conspiring to overthrow the government and take control? Don't you think that's a bit paranoid.
Try and understand that even if there is a provision (and I hope there is) for recall it would only take place after due process and then the County Commission would be responsible for their replacement.
I hope you will work for your beliefs passionately but I also hope you will form those beliefs on facts and not fantasy.
Are you among those who believe a teacher with tenure is untouchable, perhaps you should speak with some teachers for a better understanding of tenure. Allen Barrett
7:11 You truly do have a vivid imagination when it comes to a group. Mr. Barrett explains again, there is no group in his posting above. As for a recall vote, the way I understand a recall vote anywhere is that a petition happens through the petition process that creates a referendum for ALL registered voters to make a decision on whether or not they want to keep someone in office. As to how a vacancy is filled, that would be up to how the charter commissioners write the charter along with state guidelines.
Has anyone started the recall thing yet on this trio of lawbreakers ?
Where can I go to sign it ?
Pedro
wab
You said "we have held meetings, and we could not afford huge ads." Well, that surly sounds like a group to me. And I hope I am wrong that the agenda is not to get the "right people" in all or most county elected official positions. No, it's not paranoia; I would call it keeping an eye on what is going on.
As for who writes the charter, would you deny that some of your cohorts will do their level best to be on that committee? And with regard to recall, would they not be the ones who would decide how an elected official may be replaced? I think so. My prayer is that good people will step up and run for the committee. I'm sure you would agree with that, but I fear you and I would disagree on what defines a good person. I just hope Giles Countians in general will not be apathetic about this. Please excuse my lack of knowledge. I'm just concerned, and that gives you no right to speak to me in that manner.
Pedro
I dont believe there is a provision in TN state law that allows for recall vote. If the charter has that provision written in and the people of this county vote for the charter, then it will be law in Giles county. In the meantime, Giles Co. does have an Ethics Committee which is meeting tomorrow at 9 a.m. in the annex basement. They are in a position to receive complaints against public officials and once the complaint is filed, they have no alternative but to look into the complaint. Complaints can be downloaded and perhaps WAB can direct you to where.
Julio
Who is on that ethics committee?
I'm not sure of all the members but know that Carol Wade and Jack Woodard are members. I think there are 5 total members.
Tommy Pollard is also a member.
The reason Mrs. Vanznant always gets her way is, she knows to say: I think we need to contact C.T.A.S. for an opinion, or I think we need to get the State Attorney Generals' Opinion!
Why does the Ethics' Board NOT get the State Attorney General Opinion on Mrs. Vanzant holding the office of County Executive and living in Lincoln County.
The law does not say you can own property in the county and serve that position, it says live in the county twelve months prior to the election!
Her actions holding this office if Fraud, plan and simple.
I would like to see her up on charges for this and OUSTED from office, ordered to repay the County for everything she has cost the County while holding this position.
Would like to see if we have any Commissioners with backbone to follow up on this and also how any of them votes on any Ethic charges against her or any other official !!!
GTC says to 9:29:00
Maybe this is why there is a movement to have Home Rule governing Giles County?????
I urge all citizens to consider and elect a responsible and thoughtful person from your respective district to sit on the Home Rule charter committee.
I see the witch hunt continues.
GTC..
I couldn't agree with you more. This county needs some good people to run against the radicals who will DEFINITELY be running for this committee. I firmly believe that, should they gain this power, they will selectively dismiss any and all elected officials whom they consider undesirable.
I urge the people of Giles County to search out and encourage good and responsible people who are not afraid to stand up to this group to run for the charter committee. Don't foeget that these people cannot gain this control unless you the voters allow them to do so. Why is that? It's because they can't get elected if good and respectable people will step up and run against them. This is a dangerous thing that must be stopped.
I have a question. If the proposal for the charter has already been written, then who wrote it? If it has been written up as a proposal, when may we be able to read it? Furthermore, why elect a charter committee whose job it would be to write the proposal if it has in fact been already written? Would someone enlighten me? Thank you.
There is a web site where you may read a SAMPLE of what a charter COULD look like. Maybe WAB could supply that web address.
However, its obvious you are the same person who writes on every topic on this block, always picking and blasting at Mr. Barrett and others. You are also the one who has this manic obsession there is a phantom 'group' out there planning and plotting. Get real.
The Charter has not been written, not one word of it has been written, that will be what those elected to the committee in August will be charged with doing. This is just an attempt by those seeking to prohibit citizens from having a voice in our government. Allen Barrett
Wrong! I think the concern of people like me is that Giles County needs to run some good horses for that committee who will be able to defeat those who are pushing this mess. I am certain that they will be running.
This is the same Adams that got up at the school board meeting and said that the was voting for the bonuses then turned around and voted against it?
Can anyone find out how much we have paid the county attorney. Why do we need one if some commissioners aren't taking the legal advice.
I heard she was pulling in about $40,000 a year from the county. Easy enough to get a true figure from the accounting office about mid July. As for not taking her advice, Lovell openly said in a committee meeting, referring to the attory who was doing research on a matter, 'Do we have to do what she says'? Obviously if answers dont fit what he wants he feels legal advice should be ignored. Which again leaves us at the question why do we need an attorney?
No they don't have to do what she says.
That why there has been 5/6 County Attorneys' since Mrs. Vanzant has took the office of Co.Exct.
She does not do what they say and they resign.
Since Lovell,Harris and Jackson voted against the advice of the county attorney, if there should be a lawsuit could they be held accountable instead of the county? The county should not be stuck with the expense caused by their stupid actions.
Usually its the county as a whole that gets sued. But since Jackson,Lovell and Harris not not exactly employees, maybe only those individuals would be named in this case should a lawsuit be brought.
Just wondering what you see when you pull into the parking lot or enter the church doors at the Campbellsville Methodist Church?
The church ain't the only thing that should have disqualified them getting a beer license, the public library is will within the 400 foot area.
So if the Resolution reads within schools, churches or public gathering place as I have heard, then even the four hundred feet vote by Lovell, Jackson and Harris is not valid. Maybe this is why Jackson is such an agnry man. Finally some commissioners have stood up to him abd nade him look the aggresor he is.
Someone needs to add up the cost of these meetings revolving the beer permit compared to the price of the beer permit to find out how long it is going to take for the city get the money back out of that beer permit when anyone in Pulaski already has a couple dozen local options to buy beer for home consumption like maybe at just about every intersection that we have on the two main drags through town.
Do we really need one more and within 400 feet of a church or school. No, but someone does.
I prefer the paranoid conspiracy side of things and soon as I heard that the distance was being reduced I thought to myself, "Well someone with connections that is within the legal limit of a church or school wants a beer permit and all you have to do is wait and see who it is."
So I don't know if I was right or wrong.
Just curious, what was the rule when the latest store at the intersection of 31A and 31 was built. There is a little church between Gerald's and the restaraunt supply store. That store is directly across the road. Who allowed that?
6:39
I do believe that church is in the Pulaski City limits and not in the County.
Jackson and Lovell are a couple of bullying idiots!
Oops! I'm sorry Mr. Jackson and Mr. Lovell, TYPO!
7:12
Well, I see you are on yet another thread this evening with your spewings. HLSS has you in its grips. Such hatred and resentment is going to eat you up inside, if you don't stop. I can see it's already affecting your mental health. Ulcers and other maladies will shortly follow. Stop letting someone tell you who to hate and resent and begin to question "why" as you would say.
9:22
I'm sorry, stop splittting hairs. It was a typo not a mistake.
We recently returned from a lovely drive to the Campbellsville Community. After reading opinions posted here we decided to venture to the scene of the professed crime for ourselves. After reading back through the posts we failed to find mention of the fact that the store in question cannot even be seen from the Methodist church. There is a building preventing the view.
Within our political structure we are presented with the burden of choosing elected officials of good character who will serve for the best interests of the community. If they fail to accept that challenge we as voters should support a different candidate in the next election cycle. It IS the responsibility of the voters to educate themselves as to what are facts and what is hearsay.
We have met Mr. Harris briefly a couple of times. We do not know Mr. Lovell or Mr. Jackson. But what we do know about all three of them on this issue is their position on granting the permit IS the correct one.
Written laws tend to arise out of knee jerk reactions to a recent news story's popularity or intentional personal agendas brought forth by individual groups. After the laws are written we rely on law enforcement, the judicial system, and politicians to use COMMON SENSE to administer it. Unfortunately this factor becomes lost many times.
It would stand to reason a footage distance requirement became a law to prevent alcohol establishments from locating "next door" to a church or school, ect. Now enters the "common sense factor". What constitutes next door? The store in question is definitely not "next door". You cannot even see it from door to door! Good common sense interpretation of the communities needs were passed down by these commissioners. It is the only store there.
Do you really think 600' will be the determining factor that influences one to become a drunkard or not? Go look before you answer. We did.
10:56
Excellent post.
The laws does not state whether or not you can see the church, it has to do with the number of feet from the church. You say these three men did the right thing when the county attorney advised them to wait and get an attorney general answer on the question. That is what the commission pays an attorney for. If everyone did what they wanted then there would be no need to pay $40,000 a year for legal representation. When your taxes go up to pay all the law suits the county will get into over this then we will see if you still think they did the right thing. Right now there is no limit on the distance from a church, school, or library. You might have one open across the road in front of your house.
To 10:56
Problem is that while the law is the law it should be be enforced, if not then society becomes lawless. We see the results of this selective enforcement in the distance rules have been totally nullified. Had there been no effort to change the law before hand I might tend to agree with a need to at least examine that law but the fact is the attempt to change the law was defeated by a majority of Commissioners who have the sole authority to establish distances between places where alcohol is sold and churches, schools and public gathering places. The County Executive under the guise of a "mistake" exceeded her authority and overrode the decision of the County Legislative Body. The Beer Board, against the advice of the County Attorney, chose to ignore the law also.... again the result is now there is no law.
Another thing that must be considered is that not only is there a church within the limits set by the County Legislative Body but there is also a public library even closer and the law also prohibited places of public gathering from being within that 1000 feet.
This decision was not made for the good of the county it was the result of a deal made in violation of the state "Open Meetings Law" by one commissioner to support the other who would in return support a half million dollar ambulance station in Minor Hill.
This was a reckless decision made by people who placed themselves above the law.
The question once again must be asked are we a nation of laws or a nation of the privileged few? Clearly this decision has favored the few at the expense of the many, but that seems consistent with the well established attitudes of Commissioners Jackson, Lovell and County Executive Vanzant. Allen Barrett
10:56
Excellent post. I do believe the buiding preventing the view of the church from the store was once the building that housed the Campbellsville Community Pot Growers Warehouse. It's such a shame they shut that down. You could'nt see the pot from across the street or even from the front porch of the building. Why in the world did they ever shut that place down? Oh, that's right it was illegal. Why have rules and regulations when they can be changed or overruled when needed? I'm thinking of opening a brothel across from First Baptist, but it's okay because the preacher is going to have everyone close their eyes while they are walking to their cars so no one will see it.
I understand Mr. Barrett your position concerning the “law” but I offer the following.
There is no doubt a society without laws would become lawless. Good point, however the interpretation of the law in question becomes the query. I also question your definition of a "plain written law". Is there such a thing?
I find the similarities between preacher's, politicians, & lawyers amusing. All are storytellers at the core. Whoever tells the best story wins. All three will spin words to achieve acceptance of their personal agendas. Typically their mind set adheres to the belief that they are speaking for and in the benefit of the masses. All three will spin words for money. All three will spin words to increase their following. Although the “Sunshine Law's” concept is noble, interpretation of the law will always preside among the foggiest of conditions. Preachers meet with leaders of the church privately to chart the direction of the flock. Politicians meet privately with whomever will fund and provide manpower to secure a win. Lawyers even have confidentiality laws to plot their secret agendas, lol. There is not a lot of sunshine surrounding the three. Preacher's will use personal selective terminology from the bible to support their particular denominational beliefs. Politicians will select the issues that make the news to create support for themselves. Lawyers live for the microphone, cameras, and the headlines. All three operate under the concept that their interpretation of the topic is true and just and thus is not contestable. They are always on your side & always represent the opinion's of the majority.
This is how laws are conceived. Someone comes up with a idea. Private meetings are held with people who will agree with the person and their idea. Storytellers are identified and charged with conveying it to the masses. Bam. A newborn law is proudly announced to the public. Now comes the opposition to the newborn law chomping at the bits to test its validity and range. How will it all play out in the end? Depends on who has the best storyteller!
In my opinion Mr. Barrett is correct upon questioning the decisions made concerning the footage rules. I believe he is also correct in stating the county attorney thinks the rule is now zero feet. I disagree on the notion that accepting the county attorney's decision or waiting for other “judicial opinions” should have prevented the beer board from doing their duty. Their “charged duty” was to evaluate a request to sell beer at an establishment who applied for a permit under the time frame of a 400” rule. What did or did not equate into the development of the 400” rule was not at question. Personal religious beliefs of committee members should not play into the equation. A small business was allowed to sell legal merchandise to consumers who want to willfully purchase that merchandise. Actually if the accounts reported here are indeed factual, then the two commissioners who declined to sign the permit as non-supportive of the permit are actually the ones who failed their responsibilities as board members.
So after all this the real issue is who's the best storyteller? It always relates back to who's the best storyteller. You are only in violation of being “above the law” if you failed to be the best storyteller!
What an incredibly naive and cynical approach. First of all I strongly resent being placed with a group that so easily can take both sides of every issue. A minister does not have the luxury of picking and choosing based on personal preferences. Personally I have never met in private with any group of members or individuals to discuss or determine anything about the direction of a congregation.
As for denominations I believe it is a very well known fact that I have been as critical as supportive of them and especially of Baptist.
I have never made claim that God had taken my side on any issue but have sought to examine my positions as to whether they are on God's side.
Now speaking of the issue of the beer board. I have no objections against the sale or drinking of alcohol. Of course I believe consumption should be done in moderation. I even offered a compromise solution to the Commissioners in an effort to avoid losing the established footage. In that compromise I suggested that an exception could be made when three factors were met. 1st The church or school would have to agree to the license. 2nd There could be no direct unobstructed line of sight between the entrances of either building. 3rd There could be no advertising of alcoholic beverages anywhere on the property that would be visible from any position outside the building where it is sold.
So here's a part that I think you fail to understand. There never was a legal establishment of a 400 foot rule. The law is very clear on this matter "only the legislative body of the county can establish the qualifying distance rule". What the County Executive did was nothing less than veto the vote of the county legislative body which was a violation of her authority. The vote was taken, recorded and no objection was made to it, so even if it was an incorrect tally or vote it became a part of the official record. At the very least in order for that to be altered it would require another vote by the legislative body not a declaration by the county executive.
When the beer board met and used the 400 foot rule to justify issuing the license they were in error because there was no legal 400 foot rule. They exceeded their authority and responsibility by effectively establishing a 400 foot rule without the authority to do so. The two dissenting votes on the board were correct in not signing off on the vote because it was done outside their authority.
An additional dis-qualifier was ignored in the question of whether even with a 400 foot distance rule the store would fail to qualify as it seems it's within that distance of a public gathering place. Being a good or bad storyteller has little to do with examining the facts and applying them equally.
Allen Barrett
I can assure you Mr. Barrett that being deficient in worldly wisdom and informed judgment could hardly be used to describe the catalysis that empowers my rational thought process. Cynical. Absolutely. We do share that common trait do we not? Both of us tend to distrust others motives. So the answer would be yes. Yes I do tend to be cynical so we share bits of common trains of thought.
Your resentment is noted however I fail to see where I specifically entered you into the “group”. I stated “I Find”. Maybe my assumption was incorrect in relation to the rules & regulations of this blog. After rechecking, my monitor still shows the verbiage “free speech”. The attempt was to utilize my free speech by using the phrase “I find”. Being marked as cynical, I still find my thoughts to be true.
Here's another I find. I find ministers by trade have the ultimate luxury of “picking and choosing” sides on issues. The verses of the bible hold untold numbers of different meanings, definitions, & translations varying from culture to culture, custom to custom, time periods to time periods, and religious denominations to religious denominations. You individually possess the ability to define the scripture as you deem appropriate to validate your positions on specific items of discussion. To further my point I direct you to the unquestionable fact that your fingers can relate your thoughts onto this board in which ever mode YOU chose. Also adding your thoughts of “have sought to examine my positions as to whether they are on God's side” would lead one to believe that you look for justification in your actions through you personal interpretation. So in my opinion you do have that luxury.
Being that I am not of the clerical profession your point of never meeting in private is noted. My assumption was most Christian faith churches were comprised of deacons, elders, or monsignors that monitored and set parameters of their churches. I assumed meetings would be held with the preachers to discuss items of church business, pay, revivals, ect. I had no idea ministers acted alone or a popular public vote was held during services when decisions concerning the church were made.
I applaud you for your position on drinking and the exception factors. Very good points. This actually reinforces my position on this issue. The “footage law” is ridiculous and can trace its origin directly to politicians clamoring for moral positions among voters. Because no law can be so simple as one size fits all, I stand by my position that the board in question was charged with the duty of presenting the correct ruling for this INDIVIDUAL application. The discussion should be about this case only. The rest falls back to another story. By actually signing the approval as two dissenting votes on the board, they would have declared their position on the issue. By not signing their actions equate to a no opinion status.
Being a good or bad storyteller has everything to do with public opinion and public perception. Remember its always the best storyteller :)
I know everyone that has read this post has wanted to say this, so I will go ahead. 400" is 400 inches. 400' is 400 feet! Thank you for playing.
Ty 8:51. Actually I thought it was 121.92 metres. That lil ol ' messes me up. I type with one finger now. No more " wit one finger :)
Back to the question!!!!
The Rule Of Law has been suspended in Giles County since the present County Executive was elected.
The only way the voters will get and thing done is to VOTE in a new County Executive this year and some Commissioners that will show some back bone and learn some of the rules and regulations (LAWS) in other words.
The same applies for Our Senator & House (CONGRESS)
IT IS TIME TO TAKE BACK OUR COUNTY AND COUNTRY!
Everyone also needs to spread the word.
Old Man
Do you all realize that it is possible to get things changed by having a Charter. This is going to be a great opportunity for THE PEOPLE! Examples of such possible changes are: We can have an elected Superintendent instead of an appointed one. We can vote on property tax increases when our ever loving Commissioners feel the need to cram one down our throats. We can stop nepotism in this County. We can make the courthouse offices stay open until 4:30 so that people who work can get there before they close. We can stop Tee Jackson from hiring his Alabama retired friends and giving our jobs here at home to them. We can set the distance for Beer Permits instead of letting the Commissioners do it when they have someone who needs a favor. There are so many things that are going on in our local government that our County people can take control of. No wonder the Commissioners and the County Officials are against this Charter. Let's make sure when we elect our Charter Commissioners, we put the ones in there that will create a good Charter, one that will work for the PEOPLE.
Do you all realize that this home charter rule can be a disaster for Giles County. Instead of having government by the PEOPLE, it very likely can turn out to be government by a few. Can you see any danger in that? I certainly can. An example would be that a very small group can abolish all elected positions (as they see fit) and appoint others to take their places. They would FINALLY have the power they have so desperately wanted all along but could never gain through the normal election process. Does this scare you? It should.
Folks, ask yourself this question. Do you honestly think the county commissioners are sitting up there thinking up ways to tax your rear ends off? If they need more money, it's not to satisfy their own bellies. THINK!
And NO, I am not affiliated in any way with a commissioner or elected official. I am a concerned Giles Countian who has lived here all his (her) life. I believe I have a handle on what this "non-existent" group trying to pull off. We can't afford apathy about this. Be assured that there will be an existent group who will be working hard to educate Giles Countians and to defeat home charter rule. The commissioners I know who oppose this are NOT concerned about keeping their so prestigious jobs; they are concerned about what could happen to our county.
Yes, let's make sure we encourage respectable and honorable people to step up and run for this charter commission. Unless they do, the ones who are behind this will be writing the charter proposal. You can bet they will either be running or will be sponsoring those of their persuasion.
10:27 You are absolutely out of your mind. I feel very very sorry for you.
I agree with 10:27. How can a charter change anything? People in the charter are elected just like now. Do you think because there is a charter that the charter group will be elected to run things? I don't think so. Same ole, same ole.
4:01
Don't feel sorry for me. I would be more concerened for the welfare of Giles County should they catch us asleep and get this thing passed. That is, if it's as bad as I hear it could be.
10:27 what you say is absolute bull. How many times and ways does a thing have to be explained before you stop spreading lies. it's already been said on here State law can not be overridden by the charter, no one can be replaced by the charter.
One more thing is yes some commissioners are thinking how they can raise our taxes and add more fees. at least one commissioner made over five thousand dollars last year from attending meetings. That a tidy sum to cover expenses with.
10:27 yes our Commissioners have already proven they are wanting to raise taxes every chance they get. We cannot stand anymore! Get over it, for we do need this Charter so that WE THE PEOPLE can vote on things not that select few you keep referring to. Oh and my the way, do WE THE PEOPLE realize that our State Representatives are looking at a bill to allow our County School Boards to be able to levy Property Taxes for the School's Budget. Is this not another reason to vote for a Charter. If the State allows this to happen, I'm afraid someone will get hurt. People in this county are already taxed to death. We need to call Eddie Bass and Doug Jackson and tell them to vote no on this. What a disaster if this happens!
6:06
Who is spreadung lies on this blog? It's certainly not me. I just think that WE THE PEOPLE need to know the pros and cons of this charter issue before they vote for it. There's no getting rid of it once it's in. And I will do my part to make sure that people can make an informed decision before they vote. OK?
I resent your accusation that I am spreading lies. Ironically, your accusation is a lie.
8:49 you are spreading lies and you know it. you said at 10:27 "An example would be that a very small group can abolish all elected positions (as they see fit) and appoint others to take their places. They would FINALLY have the power they have so desperately wanted all along but could never gain through the normal election process. Does this scare you? It should."
This is an absolute impossibility and your darn well know it even if you are as stupid as you appear to be. Saying something you know is untrue makes you a liar.
you are in need of being educated before you can think of educating someone else.
11:15
I have not told one lie about the matter. What I have had to say about the home charter situation came directly from a Knox County source that I will not disclose at this time. And, while you may not think so, there is a small group of people here in this county who want the power they can't gain through an election. They know this, and that is why they are pushing this charter. Oh, I forgot. There is no formal or informal group.
Trust me, I will become fully educated on this thing. And, while I am vocal about those intentions, rest assured that there are others who are equally concerned and who believe those who are pushing the charter are very clever and dangerous. That's right; I said dangerous.
6:41 are you saying this statement came from someone in Knox County, "An example would be that a very small group can abolish all elected positions (as they see fit) and appoint others to take their places."
You have posted this more than once if it came out of your head in light of all that has been said and proven then you are a liar. If it came from someone in Knox County they gave you some incredibly wrong and totally stupid information in light of state law.
1:10
Thatis exactly what I was saying all along. I never made up one single word. So, wab either was lying when he accused me falsely or he misunderstood my comments. Should I wait for his apology? Right.
Let me make sure I understand you. Are you saying that a charter commission here could NOT include a recall provision with local authority to dismiss anyone of their choosing?
2:35 A charter could include a recall provision but as has beenexplained previously no local authority can duismiss anyone of their choosing. You have already been educated on how a recall vote works. You have already been told numerous times that Knox county is not trying to opt out of their charter. Yes, both Knox and Shelby counties had commissioners who went to court over term limits but if you do your research you will see the courts ruled in favor of the counties and those dumb commisssioners did not get to run again after their term limits were up. What else thick head dont you understand?
4:42
Look, can you get it through your "thick head" that I was merely passing along what I heard? Why should I take something as the absolute gospel just because you say it's so doesn't make it so. Let's just wait and see how this thing unfolds. The people of this county have a right to know the pros and cons of a charter. OK?
Regardless of what I say, there's always going to be one like you who will put a spin on it. That's ok. The people of Giles County cannot afford to be apathetic about this issue, and if it's bad, I am going to work my tail off against it. That's an opinion and right that we all have, don't you think?
5:05
You took it as "absolute gospel" when your "reliable source" in Knox county told you something that is just not true. See what I mean about a thick head? By the way, you are going to look kinda funny without a tail!
Look, think whatever you want to. Just be aware that not everyone is going to fall for whatever you say. Time will tell. If it becomes necessary, I will do everything within my power to help see the charter thing defeated. Ok? That's my right.
There's really nothing else you and I need to talk about. You want to try to be cute and belittle, and I don't want to play the game.
Let me share one other little tidbit with you. And know that this is merely an opinion. Here it is. Anything a "non-existent" group is promoting scares the pants off me. Ok?
For those that may be confused by some of the false rhetoric and for those who seek to confuse I apologize for not keeping up with this matter over the past few days but will try an clear the air now.
As has been stated there is no effort under way by the people of Knox County to get out of the charter that is period, with no if ands or buts. It only takes a call to the County executive's office to verify this.
For the matter of the very false claim that an official could be removed from office just because someone didn't like them and wanted their job for their-self. Whether you call it a lie, unfounded rumor, misstatement, misunderstanding and anything else you might choose, the fact of the matter is state law prevents removal of a person form office except for cause which requires due process of a hearing etc. No charter can change that. The only way a person can fill a vacant position is by being appointed by the majority of the county legislative body and then they must stand for election at the next opportunity. No charter can change that.
At this point there is nothing you can legally do to stop the charter. This election process became fact when the petition signatures were certified. You can work to prevent individual from being elected but at this point that is all. After the charter is written then you can do all you want to prevent it being adopted by the county when it comes up for approval. It takes a very foolish person to oppose something before they know what it is they oppose, it takes a fool to oppose something that doesn't even exist.
You will find very few people who will be more supportive than I, of every individual expressing their thoughts and working to accomplish whatever they believe is right within the law. It is the responsibility of every citizen to take part on which ever side they choose in an effort to accomplish the most for anything they love so you will not hear any objection from me about your working to influence the charter I have only asked that it be done with honesty and openness not unfounded rumors, third hand misinformation and just untrue claims.
I believe in the charter process and that with the right provisions it will benefit all the citizens of the county, that's why I and others have worked to get it this far. If you believe differently use the truth to prevent it. I will not gain any power, position or anything else other than the satisfaction that real accountability and a greater level of responsibility toward citizens will be accomplished through the adoption of the Charter form of Government for Giles County. Allen Barrett
5:26/5:29 Come on now, I was just beginning to have fun.
wab...
There you go again with your usual rhetoric. Nobody I know is trying to confuse the public or purposely make false statements...unless that person happens to be you. As I have said repeatedly, I simply passed along information given me. If it turns out to be wrong, then it is NOT because I am a liar or one set on confusing Giles Countians. On the contrary, I want every single voter to be able to make an informed decision before voting for a charter home rule. Right now, I think it would be a disaster if the people vote this thing in. And that is my opinion, based on what I know about it to date.
I am somewhat relieved that, according to your post, a few people can't just tell a long-time and dedicated elected official to hit the door. I think we would both agree that such behavior would be morally wrong.
There may be nothing that can be done right now to legally stop this thing from going forward, but the voters can stop it at election time. I just hope the voting public won't just blindly accept home charter as the same kind of needed change that obama promised. What a tragic mistake that has been.
You say that you and others have worked to get the charter this far. Pardon my saying so, but that sounds like an existent group to me. I could be wrong.
You also say it would take a fool to oppose something before he or she fully knows what it is. Well, wouldn't that be equally true for those who are promoting it, particularly since you say it hasn't been written? How could you promote something without knowing what's in the package?
8:13 There you are my little nincompoop! I thought you had already gone to bed ready for our stand-off in the early a.m.
A couple of points 8:13 I'm not sure you'll be interested because they deal with simple facts that are easy to check.
FIRST: You say, "Nobody I know is trying to confuse the public or purposely make false statements...unless that person happens to be you".
When one states something as true it may be a result of bad information or a simple mistake. When one states something a second and third time after being given information that reveals the error of that statement it then becomes intentional. It's not the original posting of your misinformation that is a problem but your continual spread of false information that has been so overwhelmingly been exposed as false and that sir is what makes you a liar at worst and an intentional deceiver at best.
SECOND: You state, "I think it would be a disaster if the people vote this thing in. And that is my opinion, based on what I know about it to date. The voters can stop it at election time". With each of your postings you have revealed less and less knowledge of what you are speaking about. Understand this please.... People will not be voting on "this thing" in August but on people to write "this thing". Approval to elect the committee has already been done by the people.
THIRD: You state, "You say that you and others have worked to get the charter this far. Pardon my saying so, but that sounds like an existent group to me. I could be wrong". Well you are wrong point blank. It's like going to different high schools together. That doesn't mean we were actual classmates sitting in the same room but that we experienced much of the same cultural things by attending high school during the same years.
Because there are ten people working at McDonalds doesn't make them a group.
Apparently your arrogance will not allow you to use the word we only I.
FOURTH: I did not say "it would take a fool to oppose something before he or she fully knows what it is". I said that It takes a very foolish person to oppose something before they know what it is they oppose, it takes a fool to oppose something that doesn't even exist.
There is now a provision to elect individuals to the Charter Writing Committee in August and that is what I support. You on the other hand have continually stated that you are opposed to the Charter itself because of what's in it but IT HAS NOT BEEN WRITTEN YET. What you have expressed an opposition to is a totally non-existent thing, blank sheets of paper, a bag of air.
This is my last effort to educate you on the realities and non-realities of the charter. If anyone else has a question I will be glad to respond but trying to reason with you in your dishonesty has reached the level of being totally pointless. Allen Barrett
wab...
Just because you say what I have passed along on this blog are falsehoods or misinformation does NOT make that so. Just because you say I am wrong doesn't mean that I am. You do not have all the answers, and I honestly believe what you and a few others are trying to pull off is going to be a disaster for this county if it goes through. I also happen to believe stringly that you guys are counting on Giles County voters to be apathetic about this issue. I continue to be amazed at how you guys collaborate on strategy.
Uh, I hate to correct you on the McDonalds thing, but ten people working there would constitute a group of employees. And whether you call someone a fool or very foolish is simply another play on words.
Yes, you can bet I am very opposed to charter rule for Giles County. To be quite honest, I am afraid of it for two reasons. The first is because of what could written into the charter and what the true motives of the writers will be. The second is because I am very concerned about anything you are behind. I'm sorry if that offends you, but I just have a very difficult time trusting you. That being said, I really don't need you to educate me. I'll take care of that myself.
5:44 a.m. You nasty little nincompoop! I invited you to log on with me at 6 a.m. this morning since I am leaving the city today. You declined since you "have to leave for work", yet you can still get on here and do your usual back and forth with WAB. That alone loses your credibility. Poor, poor soul. I really really do feel sorry for you. Catch you later.
5:44 I have read many times on here where Mr Barrett said don't take his word for anything just because he said it but to prove him wrong. He gave reasons for what he said and you're just to pig-headed to understand.
I wish since you not gonna let Mr Barrett educate you you would let someone educate you cause you sure are in need.
7:56
Again, don't feel sorry for me. I'm doing just fine. And I don't have top explain my reasoning for not logging on with you.
And I do give reasons why I think wab and his followers are wrong. But that isn't acceptable, is it?
To the anonymous 5:44 poster.
I didn't ask nor have I ever asked you are anyone else to believe anything I say just because I happen to say it. I have encouraged people to look into things themselves and make up their own mind. I do think when a person has proven themselves to be truthful in the past it becomes more reasonable to have people to trust their word. I have many writings on this blog and haven't been shy with speaking out, even you have stated that you don't question what I have stated only the way I say it. The bottom line is as I have stated before prove me wrong. I have proven you wrong on the statements about the charter and anyone can do a small bit of research and see for themselves that you have tried to spread misleading, and untrue information. You have even knowingly told things that were untrue which makes you a liar.
I have never claimed to have all the answers and have offered almost as many questions for consideration as possible answers. At no time have I tried to impose anything on anyone.
There is a huge difference in a person acting foolish and being a fool. Everyone at some time or another acts foolish but the fool refuses to change his behavior because he is satisfied with being a fool. I'm sorry that you can't understand the difference between a group of individuals doing different things in the same place and a group of individuals who banded together for a specific purpose unique to that groups existence.
So then we come to the real reason for your opposition to the charter and everything else that I have been involved in over the past several years, it has nothing to do with whether it's right or wrong or good or bad. Your statement, "I am very concerned about anything you are behind but I just have a very difficult time trusting you".
That's a very revealing statement especially from someone who doesn't even know me.
Based on that statement it's clear that since I opposed higher taxes you are for them; I fought against increased water rates and free water for soccer fields while seniors struggled to pay their utilities so you are for putting that additional burden on people; I opposed waste in the electric system so you supported that waste; I helped expose the corruption in the school insurance program and budget so you support paying excess amounts for less benefits and having millions of dollars hidden in the budget as a slush fund; I've consistently fought against unethical behavior by some public officials while you supported it. I have fought hard to achieve accountability to citizens so you have opposed having our government be accountable. Finally I have tried to be a consistent Christian with firm convictions so you have chosen to oppose even those.
You see opposing or supporting anything just because someone you don't like takes an opposite position on that issue is what makes you the fool. Allen Barrett
3:47 I'm home! See you are, too. Missed ya this morning. Dont care about your reasons regarding WAB by why oh why cant you explain your reasoning for not logging on with me this morning? Know you dont have to but I DO feel sorry for you that you are not able to explain your reasoning on that one. Sad little nincompoop, but I still loves ya.
wab...
So now you are calling me a fool? Incredible. Why don't you pray for and try to convert me? By the way, I could likewise call you a hypocrite, but I'll not do that. My convictions won't allow that.
No, you haven't proven me wrong about what I was told about the charter. Perhpas you forgot that you called me a fabricator of falsehoods, and that I told you I only shared what I heard.
Yes, I did say at one time that I had no problem with your message but in the way you delivered it. But on this issue, I totally disagree with the message. Tell me, exactly why is it that all of a sudden we need a county charter? And you have some nerve to accuse me of supporting wrong! Would you be so kind as to point out one post where I directly said or even implied that I did not want to see government held accountable?
Please don't even bother saying I oppose your Christian convictions. You see, I have some of those myself. Just because I would disagree with yours neither makes me less than a Christian and certainly no fool! How dare you!
How dare you? You come on here and act like a fool and then try to make everyone else out the fool. Then, if all else fails, you fall back on religion. You are the biggest hipocrite I have ever heard of.
How dare you? You come on this blog and act like a fool and then try to make everyone else out the fool. Then, when all else fails, you fall back on religion. You are undoubtly the biggest hipocrite I have ever heard of.
6:27
I dare, because of people like you. I defend against what I believe to be wrong (name-calling, character attacks, smear campaigns, attempts to ruin and humiliate, etc.). To me that's a much nobler cause than your being an apologist for those who are clearly guilty of such things.
You are really confused if you think I am the one who gets on here and tries to make a fool out of others. You guys are the experts in that department. I simply point it out when you do.
No, as for hiding behind religion, you are really reaching on that one. I believe wab himself just mentioned his Christian convictions in his above post. I'm sure you just overlooked it.
Mr Barrett stated to 5:44 "There is a huge difference in a person acting foolish and being a fool. Everyone at some time or another acts foolish but the fool refuses to change his behavior because he is satisfied with being a fool." My daddy told me if the shoe fits then wear it and buddy you got both feet shod.
Did your daddy also tell you that every man is entitled to his own opinion. Too bad we don't see the same qualities in a fool. Have you ever ehard that fools' names, like fools' faces, oft appear in public places? That's what my daddy told me.
If your face is in as bad shape as your brain it a humanitarian act to keep it out of public sight
9:46
Wrong. I don't have an ego problem, so it's not important for everyone to notice me. Just thought I would clarify things for you.
It's easy to understand why you don't have an ego problem all your attention is on WAB and your missing brain.
9:07
Your cheerleading is noteworthy. However, who is the one who really wants all the attention? Care to guess?
you one messed up dude 6:15
5:47
Look dude, I'm only messed up (in your opinion) because I don't agree with you.
Ok you children, STOP, now get back to the subject.
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