Referendum on Tax Increase
The city agreed today to hold a referendum to increase the current sales tax to a full ten cents on the dollar. Their plan is to use the increase to pay for a Five Million Dollar loan to renovate Sam Davis Park. Now, according to the Mayor, County Executive Mrs Vanzant has agreed to not seek this same increase throughout the county thus the full increase would go to the city. Now under this agreement, as it was stated today in the City Council Meeting, If the county were to impose this increase at some future date the county would reimburse the city for any lost revenue. That lost revenue would be a result of the schools and highway department being required to share in any county wide sales tax. While I appreciate Mrs Vanzants' unwillingness to impose an additional tax on the county I certainly am shocked, if it is true, that she would enter an agreement that would hog tie the county's ability, at some future date, to raise the sales tax and leave only the option to raise property taxes or service fees. Allen Barrett
posted by Allen Barrett | 2:34 PM
65 Comments:
Doesn't it require council approval to be binding?
If Pulaski raises the tax, everyone in the county will pay for it, or have to shop ourside of the county! Pulaski businesses will take a big hit again, when people go elsewhere. As business goes to Lawrenceburg, ardmore, lewisburg, & columbia, we'll find the county singing the blues too!
I don't understand how Mrs. Vanzant can make such a statement. Surely it would be a decision made by the full commission. Has this come up in any county budget meetings?
Don't you know that she's the cock of the walk. With few exceptions she's more of a man than any of the commissioners.
People in this county cannot take any more taxes-We are taxed to death-I dont shop in town and I dont shop in neighboring counties-I go to Alabama once a month-Alot of people would agrue that would be using too much gas, but it more than evens itself out b/c I go monthly. I save about $200 a month shopping that way.
We have some freaking idiots running this county! Most of them act like they are inbred yes men and women...
Ain't nothin like a hen tryin to crow like a rooster - especially when you can't take a nap cause of all the ruckus, squackin, feathers flying & roosters trying to fly over the fence!
ps - does it feel like you've been speared in the rear end again?
do the people of giles county want sam davis park renovated and made usable for the different athletic events held there? the park has been maintained solely by the city in the past. county school teams have been the biggest user of the facilities. the proposed plan corrects a problem without raising property taxes, which is about the only other way to obtain enough money to do the job right. which option do you want? if anyone has a better plan lets hear it.
There is no difference between raising $6 million via a property tax vs. raising $6 million by sales tax. We do not have a huge tourist trap to sucker someone else into paying the bill. We pay it, either way. If you add it to sales tax, there will be another incentive to spend "our" money elsewhere, and that means the loss of the whole sales tax, businesses, & jobs; not just what Mr. Spear wants to charge at a county level.
The issue is giving Mr. Spear $6 million to spend on something very few of us want and none truely need, or not taking the $6 million from citizens who are barely making it now! Most SSI retirees will get a $20 or less increase this next year - not enough to pay the heat bill, let alone get gas to visit someone!
Another sales tax....does anyone in county leadership think past tomorrow? Does anyone have any long term vision? Has anyone thought through what an additional sales tax will do to businesses which are already here, or to the recruitment of new industry? Seems to me, the "powers that be" are much like a child desiring an advance on their allowance when they are already months in the hole. Maybe, just maybe new revenue is needed. Could we look at a tax that each and every citizen would have to FAIRLY contribute to? (and again, I emphasize MAYBE new revenue is needed).The new tax shouldn't come from only property owners as there are many citizens who do not own property; sales tax...wouldn't that not only hurt business owners, but also the wealthy who do most of the purchasing. (and even if they can afford it, it's their money, they earned it, and it's not right for them to pay my way; we are not a socialist country, one does have the right to work hard and benefit as a result of his/her labors without fear of penalty.) So what type of tax would be fair to everyone???? What do citizens of all socio-economic levels have in common? Hmmmmmm, could it be that the vast majority of us travel the roads of Giles County? Yes, the dreaded "W" word...a wheel tax! I can hear the outcry now, but think before you blast me, please. It's a once a year payment, most families would not even realize the increase, and if you have ever priced tags in surrounding counties, you might thank your lucky stars you've gotten off as cheaply as you have for this long. Madison Co. AL cars tags are based on the assessed value of the vehicle. It's not unusual for someone to pay up to $300.00 per car each year, not to mention the state income tax that they pay out of each pay check...It's a viable, fair solution if and only if we have no other choice.
p.s. I am a public employee, you do understand why I must remain anon. I apologize in advance.
What do citizens of all socio-economic levels have in common? A growing list of socialist tax mongers who deceive to increase government and reduce freedom of choice!
Retirees got a 2.3% raise that won't begin to pay for their heating & gasoline increases! Local business will pay your stupid tax while WaLmArT and all other national firms pay nothing. Farmers find themselves selling a $50 bale of hay that costs them $300 after fertalizer, seed, and the racing fuel that's needed to cover enough ground to scratch enough dust to get a bale every hour - and you want them to pay more, more, more, for each vehicle they have to use. Then, there are the majority of folks working 2 jobs for peanuts, trying to feed children - and you want more from them! I'll bet you don't even know that sales tax is up 5% from last year & it was up 10% the year before. "the spoil of the poor is in your houses", and you want more! Isaiah 3-14 to 26 might tone down the reach of your claws. Won't find that in your school, will you.
WOW-I'm glad I posted anon...I would be afraid to face someone with your rage. I did say in my previous calm, rational post, that "maybe the new revenue was needed." I also said that if it was, the wheel tax would be more fair than any other. If you could calm down long enough to read carefully, you would see that I was NOT advocating a tax, quite the opposite. And I am quite aware of the plight of people working more than one job, especially those employed in the public sector of Giles County...as I happen to be one of those citizens.
Why do you calm down, and search for rational solutions to public affairs problems instead of attacking any and all suggestions. Or is it possible that you don't want solutions to problems, that you enjoy stirring things up, being critical just for the sake of sounding off, and generally causing turmoil. I doubt there are many public employees who are as upset as I am about various things that have occurred recently, I have been affected personally and professionally...but your reaction to my suggestion was "slightly" over the top, don't you think? I think we are are the same side, but something tells me you are one of those people who don't wish to be happy...As for quoting the HOLY Scriptures to me, I hope that I never use the WORD of GOD as a club to prove a point to someone. My GOD wants people to come to him out of love, not fear.
GOD be with you.
anon#1
Has not Mr. WAB said many times that we don't need more revenue, we need to cut spending. I have to agree with that. And as to Madison County, people in the workforce can get a decently paying job so there is no comparison to Giles Co. As to a wheel tax, it would give the commissioners the opportunity to raise it every year. I think we ought to boycot our local spending as much as possible. It for sure can have an effect.
STOP for a minute and just READ (you CAN cant you ? ) what Speer's proposal does to the county .
It STOPS the county from collecting the 0.25% additional sales tax that they could have been collecting for years but chose not to and gives it all to the city.
The city's slicker is trying to outmanoeuvre the county's sloths again . This extra tax has been suggested to the County commissioners many times but they doan want to do nuthin' their grandpaws din't do years ago . So Speer is gonna steal it from right under there noses (or hayricks !) and spend it on a facility most county folks DONT WANT .We can only hope that the Dan Speer Memorial Bathrooms work better than those at Agripark !!
dear anony 1
No one is in a rage. Like the rabbit eating the gardener's lettuce, you're on the run the minute you hear footsteps... for good reasons? It's not nice to eat someone else's lettuce.
Yes, you were advocating a wheel tax, espousing fairness, equity, and other undefined "nice" sounding things. I stated reasons it is neither fair, nor good & could add, that it increases government activity to enforce and collect it. (Begets more taxes upon taxes)
Relax, munch a moment without fear of being discovered, see if you can come up with some points of equity & fairness - share them with the rest of us.
Goodness sakes alive, neither one of us are "God". Why would the mere mention of His word strike you as a club across the back of your head? Does "the spoils of the poor is in your houses" bring fear in your heart, or do you just like to jump when you hear a twig snap? Does "me pay for what I want" bring terror to the heart of the good liberal?
Love ain't taking from the poor to bring comfort to the influential or affluent. It's the word below "love", in the dictionary that you're looking for - try "low" or "lust". The other word you seem to be looking for isn't "repeat" - "repent" is down two spaces in the dictionary.
Love is wonderful, or is it?
a whithered old man once said to a young wide eyed wippersnapper,
"I loved my first wife, but she loved everyone."
"I loved my second wife, but she loved me and my money till it was gone and she was too." and continued,
"Then I saw a person who loved to spend the money he stole, but he lived in fear of being caught."
"Finally, I saw a man in a big fine building, stretched out in a big stuffed chair, & people fetching what ever he wanted, but he wasn't afraid of nothing! So, I decided to be exactly what he be, & did it."
The Youngun looked at the tattered old man and asked, what happened?
Old man replied, "The crooked board I was standing on was rotton. I got too big for it to support me. It broke. I fell through. Everything came down on top of me - and here I am."
moral of the story: If you don't know what love is, don't expect loving a crooked board to support you when you get too big for your britches.
NO, I was NOT advocating a wheel tax. I said IF a new tax was inevitable, that would be the most fair. NO, I don't want to pay more taxes, and yes my job would be jepordized if I was found to be posting on this blog, Hello, this is Giles County, "big brother" is watching. I have no idea what you mean to imply by your quote from Isaiah, but it's always been interesting to me that people who are trying to put others down take a passage from the Bible completely out of context. It's a disgraceful and petty use of the Holy Bible. I am not impressed that someone can quote a few passages from the Bible, most people can, even non-Christians. It does hurt me, however to see HIS HOLY WORDS flung about trying to puff up one's ego. If you can live with, guess the rest of us can.
Too bad people won't let this blog be used to inform people of public issues without fear of reprisal, but rather prefer to puff up their ego with useless rhetoric without saying anything at all.
anon 1
1106 - Before you have another tantrum, simply state what is fair about a wheel tax! I stated specifically why it isn't. The poor (we have lots of them) and the elderly on fixed pensions (lots of them) with almost no raises in several years - all will pay a substantially higher percentages of income, wealth, and ability to pay than almost any who want to spend millions on something that is absolutely NOT NECESSARY! Food, shelter, clothing, medical, etc. are essential. If you are working for the county, you should be able to understand what's happening.
Isaiah said it better than anything I can. If the high rollers want a $6 million sports complex, let them build it, don't force someone to pay $50 more to drive to a job at Walmart, or to a county that couldn't give anyone a raise, - but wants build a *%$@#! cement starway to nowhere!
Think about it, you're afraid to openly talk about it for fear of reprisal! That's pitiful, but real. Do you want them to put a $6 million mortgage on your property, & everyone elses property
until they they can wring $50 per wheel, new tax plus interest for the next umpteen years? If you are renting, you pay in your rent. They could care less if you eat tomorrow, or if you sleep in a culvert!
How can I feed an ego when posting anonymous? There are several anonymous & non anonymous people on this blog & elsewhere, who will fight for you & your right to say whatever you want without fear of me or anyone else - Barrett & Winkles are two who have, have been jailed for it, have been vindicated, and have made a huge difference in this county, for the good of all.
Not mad, just making a point. We are overrun with the word "love", used in a Biblical way, by people to deceive and plot to take from people who have nothing. In this case they are even threatening you!
Liberals never seem to grasp the concept that lower taxes stimulates the economy and increase the revenue. But sadly, they keep whining about the rich who do not pay their fair share. Wellm as I've said before, the rich are the ones paying the biggest part of the taxes, and where would people like me be without them. A rich man gives me a check for working, and that enables me to provide for my family and to enjoy at least some measure of that American dream. Again, where would you and I be without them? And yet, liberals want to penalize them for their good fortune, which would have disastrous effects on our nation's economy. And I am far from being wealthy.
826 I'm not understanding msg?
Agree with the liberals & taxation, thing. Don't get the "penalizing the rich" by failing to tax the poor! Nibbor Dooh rides again?
Is it guilt for not putting in a good days work?
826 I'm not understanding msg?
Agree with the liberals & taxation, thing. Don't get the "penalizing the rich" by failing to tax the poor! Nibbor Dooh rides again?
Is it guilt for not putting in a good days work?
anon...
If you agree with me on what liberals are doing then you certainly understand their attitude toward taxing the pants off the rich in a spirit of fairness. True conservatives know that's not the way to go.
To the poster who has trouble reading what I said about a wheel tax....Why can you not grasp the fact the I never, ever said that I want a wheel tax? I don't. I said if a new tax was inevitable, I think, that it would be MORE fair than a sales or property tax increase. Don't go off on some tangent, making obscure comments that have nothing to do with the discussion and then starting ranting that I said I wanted all of the above taxes. Reads slowly and don't leave out the word if. I do get that you are opposed to any new taxes as are all of us, but if, (there's that word you seem to skim over)if there is going to be a new tax, which type do you feel is more fair, or in other words, "the lesser of all evils."
No need for a sermon, just a simple answer will suffice. And by the way, it wasn't a tantrum you read, it was anger that the Bible was being used such an arguementative, self-righteous manner.
To the poster talking about the rich being unfairly taxed, I have to applaud you for your insight. I have always wondered why our society felt they could justify penalizing someone for their hard work. Kinda kills any incentive for developing a work ethic, if it's just going to be taken away.
As for the other poster, discussing the dilema of a "fixed income" population, my question is this: Unless someone works on straight commision, aren't all workers on a fixed income?
anon 1
1119 - can't disagree with any thing said there. with all the extreme innovation in record keeping, bookkeeping, training aids, etc., we should be seeing huge tax reductions. this blog is filled with horror stories about the opposite!
If you don't want a wheel tax, why are you whining about the fairness of one? It's a fact, there are several initiatives in process, attempting to raise taxes in a period of record tax revenue! You did again say a wheel tax is more fair than a sales tax or a property tax, but again, give no example of what "fairness" is or isn't! Do you stir your pot & go to your mirror with a whos' the fairest of them all quiz before bedtime?
If granny pays $50 out of a $500 pension check, it's 10%, If you pay $50 out of $5000 a month pay check, it's 1%. A local merchant pays maybe $100 while big old WALLY pays nothing - that's your brand of fair? It isn't mine!
If Isaiah makes you mad & all torn up, don't blame me for what he said. You're going to have to talk to God about getting even with him & he may drop a lightening bolt on your head for even thinking about it. (???)
Come to think about it, you must be Mr. Lovell - don't recall hearing about anyone else that wound up zbout getting a wheel tax passed! Tell you what, you give me $50 & I'll give you a sticker, & I'll give the money to a good cause. Then, you'll have your own wheel tax, I won't have one, & everyone will be happy again.
Nope, I'm not Mr. Lovell, I'm a single mother, on a fixed income, just like the rest of the world. I might have known you wouldn't answer a simple question; What kind of tax is the lesser of all evils, if not a wheel tax? My prayer is that we get NO tax increase, but if GOD chooses to allow it to happen, I still maintain a "user tax" would be more fair than any other.
I'm done with this strand; you don't read what people write, you are already looking for what is wrong. A tax increase of any kind would be a negative, but at least I'm trying to think of something that would be in some small part, equitable. Since you are so wise and the rest of us are imbeciles, what would you propose? Why don't you attempt to be part of the solution instead of shooting everything down? And by the way, I'm not afraid of the Holy Scripture, but I do have a concern for those who attempt to use it for their own gain. You are in my prayers.
anon 1
to single mom...
I really liked your post and wanted to echo what you said about those who think themselves so wise. They arrogantly consider those who disagree with them to be imbeciles. I am routinely called "dumbo" on this blog for the same reason. Thank God these people have no legitimate power.
From the single mom...
Thank you for the compliment. It was kind of you to take the time to post it.
anon1
single mom - aka Lovell
Pleeeeaaassse, give one example of "fairness" or "equity", the fog horns of "liberalism" - a sinking ship looking for utopia.
If you were a single mom, working at almost any of the dead end jobs available, barely able to put $3 a gallon gas in a rag tag car - some of what I said might make sense.
Passing a law to take $50 from that proverbial poor working mom to build a $6 million boondoggle may be "legal" in Spear's eyes, But old Isaiah had other words for it! Don't get offended & mad. My liking old Isaiah is none of your buisness. You liking yourself is none of my business. It's a free country.
If Dumbo want's to toot in it's snoot, it's Dumbo's business. After all, Dumbo is the ultimate recycling machine - no harm to anyone, including me.
I said I was through with you, but apparently I'm not, which only proves I'm not Lovell, I'm a woman, and I will agree I am working at a dead end job, at least in Giles County becaue I am a teacher. So one more time I will ask the question, and reiterate my point...What type of tax do you think would be the "lessor of all evils?" I don't want any new tax. NONE. But I live in the real world, and I believe it will come. What would you prefer, given the choice? Never said any one tax was fair, not once. Did you read that part? Be part of the solution, not the problem.
Let me put it in a way you MIGHT get and prove that you are actually comprehending these comments: Hypothetically, the "powers that be" come to you and tell you that a new tax will be imposed for Giles County and they will allow you to choose what type it will be. You cannot stop the tax increase, you can only decide a. sales, b. wheel, c. property, d. state income, Those are your only choices and the poor and wealthy of the county are depending on you to make the choice. What will it be? a,b,c,d: That's all you can choose....my guess is your response will be a bunch of rhetoric and you still won't answer the question.
And I can assure you that if I were Mr. Lovell, you would know it, don't blame him for my opinions. If I was on the commission, I would have been impeached a long time ago.
anon1
While the question was not specifically addressed to me by virtue of it having been posted it becomes open to any and all comments.
You ask which tax would be the most fair then offer these choices a. sales, b. wheel, c. property, d. state income. Given these choices, I will suggest my choice later in this post; I would say that the "sales tax" is the most fair. I understand the sales tax takes more percentage wise from those with the least amount of income but no more that the income tax takes in actual dollars from those with high incomes. With a sales tax everyone pays equally for what they purchase no loop holes. Each person can choose to purchase or not purchase all but the most essential of products. There should be no sales tax on those food items not considered luxury items.
The one thing that you fail to offer as an alternative is to simply stop spending so much on unnecessary or unwise items. When you look at the audit it is easy to see where thousands of spent dollars could be better controlled.
Was it necessary for the county to buy the Suntrust building then spend hundreds of thousands on the move into it? Does paying an incredible amount for the Hunter Smith building and keeping it empty and off the tax rolls for all these years reflect wise or even appropriate thinking? Is a complete renovation of Sam Davis Stadium really justified when the total suggested to renovate would cost no where near the amount intended to be borrowed? Is a million dollar toilet really necessary for the park? Can any reasonable mind really justify a $40,000 dollar custodian with thirty thousand dollar helpers to clean two buildings?
I believe if there were simply more mature, common sense used without the deceit there would absolutely be no need for any tax increase.
Cut spending not tax increases should be our mantra. Allen Barrett
anon-1 Taxes are NOT inevitable. Lovell was soundly defeated again and again & very recently last time he tried to ram a wheel tax down our throat. He, and those who make sure you don't get your share of the education pot have lost every property tax hike since 2004-5 - MANY MILLIONs of $ that absolutely were not needed!
I do not begrudge taxes to pay you or any other government employee a proper wage and working conditions.
I detest the waste and financial f-R-a-u-d that is the trademark of our board of education.
If given a choice for a necessary tax - it's a property tax. I want to know how much government really costs - not taxes here there and everywhere, so no one can figure out what's going on. You have to realize property tax revenue automatically grows with growth! Sales tax automatically grows proportionally with growth and inflation. There should NEVER be a reason to increase tax RATES! If your classroom leaks, its because tj used the money to build his mecca!
No, I'm neither mad at you nor your enemy! Any tax increase is going to hurt you more than me! I am angry because our fair community has to fight corruption. Luckily a majority of our commission has a brain & are good people. Aside from one person, your gcboe has neither. The corrupt take advantage of you and others in far less favorable circumstance. By your own admission - same as others, you are afraid! This is AMERICA!! I may not have your education, but I sure do know if you let a rat eat you out of house & home, he'll sure do it. If you stomp him good, he won't only dissappear, he won't have any babies following you to the pantry!
You have some spunk & took it out on me. Get real mad, forget about me, kick some butt that needs it! What are they going to do to you? Everyone in the county knows they are corrupt & need to go! They can make fun of me, but let the whack a mom and teacher & they'll have their fingers in a meat grinder!jz
single mom..
You go, girl! You have to keep in mind that there are those "non-powers that be" in this county who are not happy with anything. They find fault with almost every facet of city and county government and seem to take a paranoid stance toward anyone who has the power they wanted but couldn't win at the voting booth. Stand your ground and just know that whiners, like taxes, are inevitable.
746 Your inevitability hasn't gone anywhere, has it. Talk about a non-power whiner. Why don't you put your name on a petition to raise taxes, kill accountability, float more bonds, and spend more?
Forgot - you've been doing all of it except putting your name on it!
From single mom, I knew you couldn't do a simple a,b,c,d...You finally did answer though, after blowing a lot of smoke. I respect your opinion although I disagree. Many citizens of Giles County do not own property, but have full access to county services. I respect your comments Mr. Barrett, with a few minor differences, we might just be on the same page.
anon 1
anon1 - all private property in Giles County is taxed, including rental property. The motive for rental is profit. Property tax is a deductable expense, considered before there is a profit. As such, all renter residents, private and business alike pay it, with very few exceptions. Renters pay it in their rent payment. Consumers pay business taxes in the cost of the products you and I buy. It's not an opinion. It's a fact.
Property tax and sales tax are paid by EVERYONE who has a roof over their head, wears clothes, & eats. Either one comes as close as it gets to true equity or fairness.
Taxes are a reality. They are a consideration in determining the cost of living as it relates to government subsidies - ie SSI, Unemployment comp. workers comp, welefare, food stamps, etc. In other words, if the grocery bill portion of the welefare check is $90 and the tax is $10, then $100 will be the consideration put in a check or deposit that will include money for other things classified as necessary.
To Mr. Barrett's point, a sales tax is better for people who can't plan ahead to pay the lump sum property tax. However, if tax on food is removed, the substinence check must be cut accordingly. If the current allowance for tax is not enough for sustinence, the allowance must be increased. When everyone pays the tax, everyone tends to make sure we get some value out of government. it eliminates the suicidal mentality of free government services! Sustinence must include the ability and responsibility to pay taxes, just like everyone else. Those are facts.
Liberals falsly claim there is no ability to pay. If the allowance amount is too low, raise it, if not, shut up. Liberals who want to increase the size and control of government, want a large block of people on government subsidies of all types and configurations for the rich and poor. As beholders vote for the beholder, soon all are beholding. Sound familiar?
Once again, fairness is a meaningless opinion, equity tends to include effort (your time at it's productive value plus resources), thus more opinion. I did repeatedly state the problem points of a wheel tax relative to who benefits, who is penalized, and the differential in individual category contribution.
This thread is about tax increases. It is about the new use of that money, which does define who will benefit. If anyone looks at the welefare people, minimum wage earners, disabled, retirees, etc., and takes food out out their mouths to build a multi million dollar cement monument to a game, I'm speachless - let old Isaiah say his thing cause we sure don't care.
It's a good subject that needs discussion. There is a reason we have different taxes for for every conceivable rhyme or reason - it's called deception. If we knew the totals and the administrative costs to perpetuate it, we'd stop pay!
anonymous..
You talk about inevitability, and I simply say that I stand opposed to people who willfully attempt to smear and malign people on this forum. And it is inevitable that I will continue to point out such atrocities as long as the Lord gives me breath to live. By the way, opposing viewpoints are at the heart of debate, right? What are your thoughts on that?
Problem is anoymous debate involves more than one expressed idea not just opinion. So far you only complain and whine about what a terrible person WAB is and you even admit not knowing him. So when someone says they are against the building of a new stadium because it will raise taxes, isn'tt necessary at the price proposed, etc and you come back with "I stand opposed to people who willfully attempt to smear and malign people on this forum". Now that ain't a debate that's a child whining.
Few people are against having an opposing view expressed but in order for it to have any value it must have reason and that reason must clearify why you are in opposition to the idea not just a dislike for the presenter of that idea.
anonymous.
I'm afraid you are wrong again. I have never said that your hero is a "bad" person. To accuse me of that is like saying all smokers are bad people because they smoke. No, good people can have bad habits. His worst habits are in his arrogance, pride, and exaggerated feelings of importance and superior intellect. You know, a truly intelligent person doesn't have to go around telling everyone how bright he is.
You keep bringing this up (my supposed hatred for the person), so please know that I feel duty-bound to nail you every single time you do. That is an inevitability for sure.
Finally, your definition of debate is strange at best. What is the difference between an idea and an opinion? Or, would you say that ideas lead to opinions? Isn't debate in reality an exchange of ideas AND opinions? But, my ideas and opinions don't count because they are not aligned with yours? That's not debate either, is it?
anonymous.
I'm afraid you are wrong again. I have never said that your hero is a "bad" person. To accuse me of that is like saying all smokers are bad people because they smoke. No, good people can have bad habits. His worst habits are in his arrogance, pride, and exaggerated feelings of importance and superior intellect. You know, a truly intelligent person doesn't have to go around telling everyone how bright he is.
You keep bringing this up (my supposed hatred for the person), so please know that I feel duty-bound to nail you every single time you do. That is an inevitability for sure.
Finally, your definition of debate is strange at best. What is the difference between an idea and an opinion? Or, would you say that ideas lead to opinions? Isn't debate in reality an exchange of ideas AND opinions? But, my ideas and opinions don't count because they are not aligned with yours? That's not debate either, is it?
912 Ideas have substance that might lead to fact. Opinions have no requirement of fact. Your problem is an inability to distinguish your opinions of hatred from fact or idea.
Someone must have tattooed "arrogance, pride, big wheel, and intelligent" backwards on your forehead, so when you looked in the mirror you would know what your life goals were. You have the first two in the bag. Start chasing trucks & the third may come to you. Forget the fourth, you will always be dufus.
9x13
x Debate do dethang deliberals depend do derail duhtruth!
x Debate do dethang ducatch defish.
Words "truth" & "substance" be missing in the nonsense you write. Opinion be you got and it do never reach the stage of "idea", let alone even resemble a fact. I'll bet 2+2 is still 5 at your house & a 160 IQ is 1x60.
anonymous..
It seems that you have diagnosed me, albeit incorrectly. You also ignorantly mentioned liberalism. I believe if you look up the meaning of liberal, it will tell you that a liberal is one who takes liberties with something where those liberties don't actually exist. In other words, taking something to be of "substance" that, in reality, is opinion and not based on fact. Maybe I need to change parties if you are representative of the conservative party.
Why don't you show me your intelligence by answering some of the questions I asked in the above post?
Stop all this bickering PLEASE. Bottom line is there is already plenty of money in the county coffers now, and with plenty of cushion in each dept. We don't need to have ANY new taxes. We just need to start being reasonable/frugal with continued spending and give this financial management thing a chance to work. It will eliminate the wasteful spending and show us all where the money goes. Why in the world do you think people like Lovell and the various dept heads are fighting it - they dont want their free spending to be curbed.
615 You are a ray of sunshine and reason! Thanks
I just returned from the Legislative Committee Meeting held this morning to discuss two items. First item was the 1/4 cent sales tax increase proposed by the city. The first thing I want to say is that it seems Mrs. Vanzant is not as much in favor of this long term commitment as was stated by Mayor Speer in the city council meeting. The proposal is being sent to the full commission without the approval of the Legislative Committee. Tomorrow the full commission will vote on this proposal. The main sticking points for me remain the same; the absurd proposed cost of the stadium and the contract the county is asked to enter into with the city. The County Attorney stated this morning that after the County Technical Assistance Service, CTAS, examined the contract “the unanimous opinion of their lawyers was that no one had ever seen anything like it”. That in itself should raise enough red flags to defeat it. The proposed contract required the county to either not raise their share of the sales tax for twenty years or if they do to pay the city for any revenue the city would lose due to that increase.
Questions are can the county afford such an agreement? Can the city merchants afford to continue doing business with increasing taxes and decreasing populations? The Square continues to increase the number of empty buildings that once held thriving businesses what happens when there are more empty than open for business? Seems the smarter thing would be to cut the sales tax and increase the number of sells by bringing back all those county customers now shopping in other counties. The other item of business discussed by this committee I hope to have as a new topic as soon as Mr. Allard can post it. Allen Barrett
wab...
Did you get a chance to "expose" anything negative this morning? What about positives? Just wondering.
202 Positives - I' positively sure you are dumber than dumbo
annymous..
I knew you would reply with name-calling. It's so predictable.
Sam Davis Park is already a beautiful place. The county is already paying part of the upkeep. Whats the problem?
Jackson wanted beachers for football - a school expense - no money? - even so, not outrageous - a hundred thousand or so - If it's there, it's is spent. Can't argue with that.
How do we get from a hundred K to $5 million. The fish got speared, didn't it. According to liberalism if you spend more money, it energizes the economy. Pulaski & Giles County will get rich. Liberals say it goes from hand to mouth, back & forth, at the speed of light & soon $5 million is $500 million.
Problem is, the $5 mil comes out of the mouth of people who need it to put something in their mouth, and it goes to a hand that's going keep it, invest in China, or spend it elsewhere. It's spearnomics.
Hate to say it, but TJ had a better idea than the spear, & the spear is about to whack Giles County and Pulaski for $5mm'z.
Sanity is a virtue, spending someonelse's isn't.
Single Mom
In one post you say you "don't want any new taxes, but if God chooses we have one...." Get realistic. God has nothing to do with the raising of taxes in Giles Co, its the commissioners.
from single mom: I beg to differ, sir or ma'am; My BIBLE clearly states that our government leaders are in office by HIS grace, not the elected officials power, not ours. AND only HE knows whether HE allowed it to help us or to teach us a lesson...As I taught my son and daughters, you may not respect the elected official, but you are commanded according to the Scriptures to respect the position that they hold at the present time. (textbook example...President Clinton after committing adultery and perjury) Still our president and that office should ALWAYS be respected.
single minded mom - I don't recall anyone disrespecting A POSITION! Quite the contrary - the issue is PERSONS WE collectively ELECTED by the grace of God's power, who do not respect the position they were given or the oath of office they pledged to uphold! Remember Lot & his Wife, Noah, The Israelites & Egypt, Babylon, and endless other instances where God punished & wiped out whole societies because He couldn't find a "just" person, one who wouldn't follow the corrupt, perverse, & unjust.
The message is unequivocally to respect God and His covenants, and treat the gifts he gives with reverence and respect - including protecting it with life if need be! === or He will take it all back and take care of business to eliminate the corrupt, perverse, and their followers alike. If you aren't doing something about it, you are a follower!
Quote the scripture that commands God's subjects to live in and follow a corrupt leadership! If someone desecrates their office, they need to GO, if not voluntary, then by foot!
When you tolerate and submit to evil, you are submitting to the will of evil, not God! Consider all of the political correctness & zero tolerance, fear of what is said, punishment for defending self, punishment for real individuality and thought - AND- the resultant armed camps with marching little feet that know not where! If the education produces anything but submissive blind followers with an ipod in one ear, a phone in the other, and a ring in their nose -- it will be an immaculate graduation
But the Bible does tell us in the book of Romans to obey civil authority.
Wondering if wab would agree to that?
Anonymous, January 04, 2008 11:33:00 AM, said:
But the Bible does tell us in the book of Romans to obey civil authority.
Well, that's the simplistic interpretation. You know, the one where the Warsaw ghetto Jews were doing evil by rising up against the Nazis, while the Nazi thugs were busy doing "the Lord's work" rounding them up, and putting them on boxcars. You don't really believe that, do you?
People who love to throw around Romans 13 almost never consider the context in which it was written (Paul and the early Christians were constantly being oppressed by the Romans), nor do they often take note of the rest of the Bible. Jesus and the Apostles constantly broke both Roman and Hebrew laws, and were quite public about it. The Apostle Peter said "We ought to obey God rather than men" (Acts 5:29)." Do you disagree?
Pastor Chuck Baldwin has written a very good analysis of Romans 13:
http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/c2007/cbarchive_20070810.html
Here, from near the end of Baldwin's essay, is the key point for modern day Americans:
...we in the United States of America do not live under a monarchy. We have no king. There is no single governing official in this country. America's "supreme Law" does not rest with any man or any group of men. America's "supreme Law" does not rest with the President, the Congress, or even the Supreme Court. In America, the U.S. Constitution is the "supreme Law of the Land." Under our laws, every governing official publicly promises to submit to the Constitution of the United States. Do readers understand the significance of this distinction? I hope so.
This means that in America the "higher powers" are not the men who occupy elected office, they are the tenets and principles set forth in the U.S. Constitution. Under our laws and form of government, it is the duty of every citizen, including our elected officials, to obey the U.S. Constitution. Therefore, this is how Romans Chapter 13 reads to Americans:
"Let every soul be subject unto the [U.S. Constitution.] For there is no [Constitution] but of God: the [Constitution] that be [is] ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the [Constitution], resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. For [the Constitution is] not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the [Constitution]? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: For [the Constitution] is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for [the Constitution] beareth not the sword in vain: for [the Constitution] is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. For this cause pay ye tribute also: for [the Constitution is] God's minister, attending continually upon this very thing. Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor."
Does that make it clear enough? I hope so.
1133 understands but can't comprehend becuse of a mental disorder called "liberalism".
Kendrick, you're arguing with a fire hydrant that's been chosen so many times by the dogs, that it thinks it's a petunia. No hope for it. It'll wilt & disappear all by itself.
Kendrick..
As usual, you are always right. Perhaps I need to read my Bible since you are a scholar. Would you agree?
Regardkess of the spin you put on this, God never taught that we should do the things some have done to others on this blog. Would you agree that He taught love, forgiveness, and the turning of the cheek?
The snake hisseth - where does it say love deceit, coveting, and do unto your neighbor while he isn't looking? Forgiveness is tied to repentence, not repeatence. As for the other cheek, about all you deserve is getting mooned!
Anonymous, January 06, 2008 12:58:00 PM, said:
Kendrick..
As usual, you are always right.
Always? I wish. I've made some humongous mistakes in my time. For example, I was a militant atheist from the age of twelve, till I was thirty seven. For a quarter century, I was not only completely wrong about the most important question that can be imagined, but as a direct result of my atheism, was miserable and depressed-- often to the point of thinking seriously about suicide.
Having been so completely wrong about God, I now have a certain humility when it comes to expressing my opinion. That is, I only venture my opinion after I have done thorough research, studying both sides of a given issue. And on matters that I haven't researched, I keep my opinion private. (You may have noticed there are very few topics on this blog that I participate in discussing. Now you know why.)
Perhaps I need to read my Bible since you are a scholar. Would you agree?
Where did I claim to be a scholar? Please don't put words into my mouth. My only claim is that I've done enough study to know that claims like "Jesus says to pay your taxes" or "God wants you to obey the government, no matter what" are purest hokum, which not only miss what the Bible actually says, but gets things completely backwards.
As to whether I think you should read the Bible, my answer is "yes," but -- based on your apparent deficiencies in reading comprehension, I honestly believe that you'll gain a better understanding of Romans 13, by listening to this roughly hour long audio clip, which features Pastor Brannon Howse:
http://www.christianworldviewnetwork.com/radio-show-episode.php?EpisodeID=3897
Regardkess of the spin you put on this,
Umm.. excuse me. "Spin" is used to describe deliberate distortion of the truth. By claiming that I've put a "spin" on Romans 13, you are in effect calling me, not only a liar, but a blasphemer. To put it mildly, I do not appreciate any such suggestion. Not only am I scrupulously honest -- I can't think of any lie that would be worth condemning my eternal soul to Hell! -- but it is the government "apologists" that have been putting "spin" on Romans 13, not me. Anyone who believes that today's bloodthirsty government -- which mass murders innocent foreigners abroad, and innocent babies at home (along with the occasional dissident... see Waco) -- is somehow the "minister of God" surely has a screw or two loose. Anyone who actually understands the Bible knows that all earthly governments are Satanic. Any "good" done by one of Satan's earthly governments is purely by accident, in most cases.
God never taught that we should do the things some have done to others on this blog.
Jesus was a straight talker, much like WAB. If he encountered a hypocrite, he called them one. Not to mention "serpents" and "vipers." Sugarcoating the truth, when dealing with corruption, was definitely not the way of Christ. Do I need to throw out a few cites to prove this fact?
Would you agree that He taught love, forgiveness, and the turning of the cheek?
Well, yes... when He wasn't turning over tables and flogging the money changers in the temple. It kinda depended on the circumstances, I suppose.
And as the anonymous above noted, your heroes in the local school bureaucracy have not repented from their deceit, and therefore haven't earned any forgiveness. Lucky for them that we are no longer under the Law of Moses, as their rotten behavior has more than justified a public stoning.
I said (in the wee hours of the morning, when I should have been asleep):
If he encountered a hypocrite, he called them one.
But what I meant to say, was:
If He encountered a hypocrite, He called them one.
Sorry about the mixup.
Kendrick, Agree in everything except the stoning. They are getting stoned in private and amongst themselves & act stoned 99% of the time.
Kendrick..
Why did I know that you would dissect every single word I said? You are too funny. I suspect that you missed your true calling.
You compared wab to Christ? You have GOT to be kidding!
Since the tax hike failed what are the new plans for Sam Davis?
I guess the whole world is waitin for the speerman to speak. He alreadt made it clear that the county would do it his way or no way.
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