Charter for the County
http://www.mtas.tennessee.edu/KnowledgeBase.nsf/0/C9DD85972D740F6B8525702A004EBFCA?OpenDocument
This document gives a little more information about the charter. Only 13 cities have the charter. 3 have repealed their charter. 5 people asked said they would like to repeal it. There are more disadvantages on the list than advantages. I am NOT for the charter. There is no GREAT benefit for the citizens. The only reason this thing has been brought up is becasue a few people keep getting upset over not being elected. They can't get their way, so they want to try and force their way. I talked to several people over the last couple days that said they thought they had to vote for a charter commissioner. Leave Giles County if you don't like it. Property is just as cheap in surrounding counties and according to some of you, those counties are the only place to get a job. Tuesday, January 24, 2012 7:16:00 AM
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Allen Barrett said...
Seldom have I read a more one sided, dishonest and purely political hit piece than what’s contained in the document mentioned.
The dishonesty comes primarily from the lack of full disclosure that the MTAS (Municipal Technical Advisory Service) is funded by taxpayers through the municipalities and like its sister organization CTAS (County Technical Advisory Services) does and says whatever the controlling organizations request of it. I have yet to see a report by the MTAS or CTAS that did not support whatever the legislative bodies of the county or city wanted.
Very little of what was written by Mr. Don Darden even applies to counties in the same way it does to cities and the cities in Giles County will be no more altered by the proposed Charter than by any changes made by the State Legislature by means of a private act.
The Charter is posted on http://www.pulaskicitizen.com/Charter for everyone to read. It’s been there for several months. Misinformation will be abundant in the next few months, even more so than in the past few months. A person should become armed with the truth in the face of this onslaught by those wishing to remain in the past. Commissioner Campbell made the statement and even posted a large sign in the Courthouse, in violation of anti-political signage, that the county has worked fine for the past two hundred years and don’t need any changes now. If you agree with that assessment then by all means vote against the Charter but if you are fed up with being governed via their inaccessible meetings, private dealings and their way or the highway then you will want to consider the Charter form of government for the county.
None of the cities mentioned in the article have had a request initiated by the citizens to revoke their Charter every request has been from the management. It’s interesting that the article states that most of the cities have not had a tax increase in more than twenty five years leading many to believe that their taxes have stayed the same. Hogwash, there is not a city in the state that has the same tax income they had twenty-five years ago and while their rates may be similar a simple consideration of the change in property assessments during that time is enough to blow your mind.
Mr. Darden subject as stated on the paper was “Home rule; Home rule--Laws and regulations; Charters--City; Charters--City—Tennessee”. His focus was clearly not on counties and his information as presented is as flawed as the unemployed numbers that come out of Washington D.C.
posted by Allen Barrett | 2:23 PM
205 Comments:
I plan to vote FOR the Charter based on being able to vote on ALL new taxes if the charter passes. That alone is enough for me.
Once again, a piece of information is put on this blog that gives factual evidence from a persons research and Barrett calls it one-sided and political. This article was written after much time had been spent interviewing officials that govern the counties that have elected a home rule charter.
Mr. Barrett has proven once again that he will say anything to discredit facts when they are presented. The article is factual information with documentation of those who spoke for and against the charter. Mr. Barrett has just proven how one-sided and closed minded he is.
Barrett, it is time for you to take your ball and go home. The meetings are accessible, there are no private dealings and their way is the way of the majority of citizens. Afterall, the citizens vote them into office. Just because you don't agree, doesn't make them wrong. You lie to call facts a lie. What is wrong with you?
2:48
You do realize that people are not longwer willing to vote themselves a tax, don't you? And if you can see that, then you need a better reason for that to vote for a mess we do not need. Once we get it, it's gonna cost a bunch of taxpayer money and is practically impossible to get rid of. Are you willing to vote for a charter based on a moot point?
Take a look at the people who are pushing it and think.
Barrett signed his name to his research. The one supposely that researched the charter want sign his. I just can't believe what anyone says when they want sign their name.
I'm not saying the charter is a good or bad thing.
Barrett didn't do research. The information was on a site with the persons name that did it and the sources from which it came. How stupid can you be? The person that posted it has nothing to do with it.
Thyanks, I like being called stupid.
To me Barrett had to research to find what someone else said.
Where did he get Don Darden if he didn't research something? I don't think he pulled it out of the air.
If you want me to I will sign this stupid.
Anyone that can post on this blog can check out charter. Just type in Home Ruke Charter and lots of information comes up, add Tennessee if you want to know the ones in Tennessee.
Hope you like to read.
4:38 Yep. I'm fully aware of how voters react when they consider imposing a tax upon themselves - been there, done that. If voters see a legitimate reason for a tax increase they vote positive. This is especially true for schools and libraries. It does not mean however, that voters will vote in a tax increase when they see wasteful spending which is what Giles county has been dealing with for years. It brings up the question - what happened to the $6M fund balance we had 6 years ago? Our county officials (including Ms Vanzant who pushes these things) have overspent the budget by $1M each year. Ask any honest commissioner and they will tell you its fact whether you want to accept fact or not. Your problem.
He got the name because it is at the top of the page as the author when you copy and paste the web address. Anything else stupid?
I pray the people in Giles County will start acting like adults before there is a shooting spree.
We aren't going to agree on everything, so let's act like adults on our disagreeing and state facts not our angry.
I thought someone called for the name calling to stop. It seems to have gotten worse.
If I type in Home Rule and read all that would it be considered researching the charter?
4:38 PM Good example of why we should be allowed to vote on all new taxes is the 90 acres Economic Development expected Giles county to purchase so EDC could 'develop' it for the future. Questions: 1 - Why didnt Economic Development or Industrial Development make the purchase if those people were so anxious to get the land? 2 - Why were EDC Chr David Rackley and commissioner Stoney Jackson, a loooooong time member of EDC and who brought the proposal and attempted resolution to the commission SO angry because their proposal was voted down?
5:38
As hard as times are and as divided and distrustful as people are now in Giles County, surely you don't think they (the voters) would vote themselves a tax increase, regardless of how the need is presented to them? You can't afford to be that naive just as Giles County can ill afford losses of revenues when expenses for needed services go up in cost.
Six million dollars in reserve funds five years ago, zero in reserve funds today that says enough to vote for the Charter.
A Financial Director who tells everyone she broke the law and will and has done it again. That's reason to vote for the Charter.
Commissioners who spend $200,000.00 on a building then sell it for $50,000.00 is reason to vote for the Charter.
All major committee and county meetings held during the day, while most other counties hold them at night, is reason to vote for the Charter.
7:59
I disagree. The depletion in funds shows all the more reason to vote against the charter. Why? When the costs of doing business and paying for services go out of sight and additional revenues are needed to pay the bills, what then? Will a referendum vote on a tax increase solve the problem? No. Why is that? It's because, in addition to times being hard, Giles Countians will not vote themselves a tax increase mainly because there's an old axiom that cautions us to never vote ourselves a tax increase. In addition, a few troublemaking individuals have poisoned the minds of the public toward our elected officials. And these are the SAME people who are pushing for a charter. Think about it; that's a true disservice to the people of Giles County.
Nobody has ever shown me a valid reason why our county needs something that could cause us nothing but future misery and expense.
10:03 You're wrong on several counts. First of all the people have voted themselves a tax increase, that is how Sam Davis Park was rebuilt. So the idea of never voting for a tax increase is absurd. People are responsible when they are treated as responsible.
The Department with the greatest increases in expenses have been the Sheriff and Highway departments yet they are the only departments that have actually cut their budgets in the past few years.
The commissioner voted themselves a raise during those years, the school system has blown millions, county insurance still isn't bid out properly, planning is not done to maximize the dollar benefit, County employees continue to make far more with benefits than the average citizen, more people are hired to do less work in some departments.
Far from a "few troublemaker poisoning the minds of the public' the public has become more aware of the abusive behavior, waste and incompetency of some. The You Tube Video of a county commissioner assaulting a private citizen then challenging him to do something since he was a county commissioner was not only eye opening for many but repugnant. Having a county employee publicly state they broke the law by dipping into the hospital fund and would do it again caused a lose of respect for county employees.
No one will be able to show you a valid reason to vote for a charter form of government because you refuse to look at the facts and as you have stated you oppose it because of who is for it, nothing logical could possible penetrate such prejudiced attitudes.
Vote against the Charter that is your right but it is not your right to try and sway others with falsehoods, misinformation and your personal hatred for me.
Common Sense please compare apples to apples.
Thanks to Mr. Barrett for pointing out you were pulling info for charter governments in municipalities with MTAS as opposed to charter governments in Counties that would come from CTAS.
Since Pulaski is running under a charter form of government should it be abolished? I would agree with you if you state yes since Pulaski has a no pool on Sunday rule attached to its Charter as well as other needless items.
But thank you for trying to mis- lead every one by comparing apples with oranges.
Per EDC being able to purchase land or assets is against rules. This came out a few months ago when it was found that the EDC had a building or two in it's name. The EDC and the city of Pulaski worked out a little deal where the properties were slipped into Pulaski's name. This is another reason The EDC needs to go. No control mechanisms, no over site, poor qualifications, but funded by the taxpayers.
In addition I always wandered who was carrying the insurance on the buildings that were held by the EDC before the transfer to Pulaski since they were not in the counties or Pulaski's name who wrote the policies? But why were they in the EDC's name any way?
Every municipality in the state has to have some form of charter in order to operate. The charter can be one written by the individual city and unless the city does that, then the city operates under a generic charter prepared by the state. If, as I read somewhere on this thread, a few CITIES opted out then they reverted back to the generic charter written by the state. The city of Pulaski re-vamped it a few years back so it is specific to Pulaski. Last time I looked Lynnville and Elkton were using the generic state written charter, which is common for many small municipalities. Ardmore and Minor Hill operate under charter but dont know if theirs is the state written one or their own. Contrary to what one poster constantly states, if the county charter for Giles goes through we would not lose one cent of income from the state because a charter cannot be written against TCA laws. What it would do is take county control out of Nashville and put local government responsibilities where they belong, in Giles county itself. As to the county being 'run by a few people who cant otherwise get elected' makes no sense whatsoever. We will still have county commissioners, a county executive and all the elected officials as directed by state law so if these people you constantly crow about want to be in local government then they would have to become candidates and get elected just as now. If a county charter is so bad, why are there several other counties in TN currently attempting to get the same passed in their respective counties?
Because every county has a group of hellraisers just like Giles County.
barrett
You are correct in saying that Giles Countians voted for that tax. Do you honestly think they would ever make thatm mistake again? NO.
I stand behind what I said about troublemakers. Who do you think you are anyhow to arrogantly assume that anyone who doesn't see things YOUR way is involved in corruption? What gives you thr right to call people dishonest or incompetent just because they (elected by the people) don't do things exactly as you wish?
Your ideas concerning employee benefits being too exscessive will really score you a lot of points with those workers.
Keep on talking. The more you do, the easier it will be to defeat this thing you and your buddies are pushing. Oh, and it is my right to sway as many people as I can, and that's exactly what I am already doing.
Thank God the voters of Giles County are smarter than some people give them credit. And this has absolutely nothing to do with your falsehood that I hate you. Why can't you just be honest every now and then? Your credibility is so damaged.
Is it arrogant to assume that 3500 voters were too stupid to know what they were voting for? I love all the kettle rants.
8:41 Haven't you noticed how someone on this blog calls people stupid.
I guess we only have a few smart people in Giles county.
8:41
No, it's not arrogance. I voted for charter commissioners myself, but that in no way means I want Giles County to vote that thing in. Lots of people voted for them...so what?
9:39 But you knew that you were voting only for people to be on a commission/committee to write a proposed charter. No power and temporary in nature. It had nothing to do with electing any one to any position. Pretty much every one knew why they were casting their vote and for some one to write that a majority of the voters were too stupid to know what they were voting for makes the poster of that comment an idiot.
If you want to defend the statement that the voters in Giles County are too stupid to know what they are voting for, then you would have to agree that is why we have so many poor elected officials in Giles County that will not enforce local rules unless it is popular and are bankrupting the county.
Hey Billard, you are not getting into office in the county. You are not going to get your way. You are the one that is an idiot.
When you read post like 12:31, makes me think the people must be stupid or they wouldn't write like that.
I thought people in Giles county was smarter than that. I hope the poster of 12:31 is a child not an adult.
The people of Giles County will prove to you that they are not so stupid when the charter is defeated at the voting booths. Thank God.
I haven't been for the charter, just don't like the smart remarks you make, 1:26.
You can be against something and leave the rude remarks of. That just makes you look bad and people question the ones against the charter.
3:00
They would do well to question those who are pushing it.
I'm 12:18 and not Billiard, don't know Billiard.
I think they should question those for the charter and those against it. The way people act when supporting or against anythings tells you a lot.
Part One of Two
What an amazingly ludicrous statement of hypocrisy. As I read your statement I felt like I had been transported back into the middle of the obama’s State of the Union Address last night where an admission of a lie isn’t a lie it’s just an untruth in a different direction. Your first statement was, “You are correct in saying that Giles Countians voted for that tax. Do you honestly think they would ever make thatm mistake again? NO.” This was your admission of being wrong about, “Giles Countians will not vote themselves a tax increase mainly because there's an old axiom that cautions us to never vote ourselves a tax increase” which you wrote on Tuesday at 10:03 and caused me to remind you of the tax increase we voted on ourselves to pay for Sam Davis Stadium. You stated that as absolute fact but it was wrong, just as wrong as your assertion that it will never happen again. You lost what was left of your credibility.
You state, “I stand behind what I said about troublemakers. Who do you think you are anyhow to arrogantly assume that anyone who doesn't see things YOUR way is involved in corruption?” The main problem with this statement is that I have never claimed anyone was corrupt simply because they disagree with me or don’t see things my way. Just another slip of the keyboard or another fabrication of an untruth? I know exactly who I am, I’m the world’s foremost authority on me. Corruption is the result of deterioration from good to bad. I have accused no one of being corrupt without giving the specific reason that identifies that corruption.
You state, “What gives you thr right to call people dishonest or incompetent just because they (elected by the people) don't do things exactly as you wish?”, and again you fabricate an untruth as I have never called anyone, elected or not, dishonest or incompetent because they don’t do things exactly as I wish. Again, when I have used such terms to describe the behavior of someone I have also given a clear reason for doing so and identified myself.
You state, “Your ideas concerning employee benefits being too exscessive will really score you a lot of points with those workers.”. Your concern for public servants, or is it self interest, is commendable. I also have a concern for them but I also have a concern for those having trouble paying their taxes and fees so those people can continue to have jobs. Whether it scores me any points or not wasn’t my concern, I simply stated a fact. Some public workers are probably underpaid, some are definitely underpaid and there are some who aren’t worth their pay if it was ten cents an hour. The problem is that it’s unreasonable that many are not contributing to their retirement, their insurance or any of their benefits while those cost keep going up for everyone else. The last few years when insurance cost were skyrocketing some employees whined about not getting raises when in fact as much as twenty-five percent increases in benefits were realized. Should public employees be compensated, of course but should their socialist style salaries and benefits be so much great than those who are paying the bills?
Part Two Of Two
You state, “Oh, and it is my right to sway as many people as I can, and that's exactly what I am already doing.
Thank God the voters of Giles County are smarter than some people give them credit.”
Again you mislead with your assertions. I specifically affirmed your right to work for or against the charter of anything else but that you did not have the right or authority to root that work in lies, misinformation and claims that can in no way be supported. It amazes me that you can both call the voters of the county stupid for voting and signing petitions for the Charter and smart because you believe they will vote against the Charter. It seems just like the obama you’re trying to have it both ways.
You state, “And this has absolutely nothing to do with your falsehood that I hate you. Why can't you just be honest every now and then? Your credibility is so damaged.”
How can you claim it’s a falsehood to say you hate me when one merely needs look at the entire history of your personal attacks claiming everything from me not even being a Christian to causing every problem that has existed in the county since I came here and all that without one single shred of supportive evidence? I agree that credibility has been damaged but it is yours not mine. I have put my name on every post I wrote on this blog, you have yet to take any responsibility for your statements and gossip. Everything I have posted criticisms I have included the reasons and evidence for having stated such things. You on the other hand have called me and others derogatory names, made personal attacks without any evidence and spread gossip as factual all while hiding under the term anonymous. You speak of credibility it’s obvious that you don’t even have a clue as to what credibility is.
wab
Once again, I would advise you not to call anybody a hypocrite. It is my opinion that you are the poster child for hypocrisy.
You may write another epistle or two if you choose, but that will never make you anything close to the Apostle Paul. Ludicrous indeed.
Again, I don't hate you; I just despise what you are doing.
7:57 Why didn't you answer any of the things WAB raised. You lied about the vote on the tax increase and there is no doubt about that loser.
7:57 hates reading the truth but most people know it is a joke anyway.
8:42
I have neither the time nor the inclination to read the two epistles barett posted. However, I did address what I perceived to be the main issue...his hypocrisy.
How did you perceive the main issue unless you read the post? That certainly makes what you just wrote a lie.
I would like to hear Barrett explain how the artice that was posted by Common Sense is a lie and political in nature. It would be nice to hear some detail as to what made him draw his conclusion. He says that he always backs up what he says with facts, but I only saw his vague opinion of why he felt it was wrong.
He should try and make a case for the charter. All he ever says is that we need to change and get away from current government. He says we need to move forward but a charter form of government dates back to when colonies first got started. It is one of the oldest styles of government. People started following state laws so they wouldn't be left behind. I certainly don't think the state would have a good opinion of an entire county that wants to get out of its control. What happens when the money runs low and the state government puts us last on the list for assistance?
I just don't see where Barrett has made any case for the charter or against the article. At this point, I am not voting for the charter. The whole process of trying to get it has been fishy to me. Anytime I hear Barretts name it is usually associated with some problem or turmoil.
7:28
Look, I read through the epistles, but I only addressed the main theme...hypocrisy.
7:47
Excellent post. This is the message we need to get out to Giles County voters. We can and must defeat the charter at the voting booths.
7:47 What about the process of getting the charter to where it is now seems 'fishy' to you? The process followed State law.
I think the fishy part revolves more around the group of people in the county that feel they need to overthrow the current government. Every state, county and city has a group of people that aren't happy. They constantly keep trouble stirred up because they think they are smarter than everyone else. And yes, it is ususally folks that moved to the town from somewhere else.
Anyone with commosn sense knows the motive behind the charter. I don't think the voters could elect a County Executive or hire a School Superintendant that these angry few would like. They are annoying as hell and we have to deal with them. They have this blog, their loud mouths and letters in the paper to get their word out. The great thing is that we get the benefit from it because they make themselves look hostile. Barretts vote count proves that he is not very popular, even in his own neighborhood. Now that everyone in the county knows he cost us $32k his popularity has dwindled even further. Quit worrying about Allen Barrett.
9:51
Excellent post. And these are the same ones who are pushing so hard for a charter. We must get this message out to the voters. Thank you.
"I have neither the time nor the inclination to read the two epistles barett posted. However, I did address what I perceived to be the main issue...his hypocrisy. Thursday, January 26, 2012 6:36:00 AM"
"7:28 Look, I read through the epistles, but I only addressed the main theme...hypocrisy. Thursday, January 26, 2012 8:16:00 AM"
To borrow a topic title on this blog, "Liar, Liar Pants on Fire"
By your own admission you lied and there's no way to justify that. No doubt we'll hear "You knew what I meant" but the die is cast and you are the product proven by your own admission a liar and as such why should anyone believe anything you say. You and the Obama case from the same die with no integrity, or moral character.
I was born and lived all my 70 years except for two years when I was in the military in Giles County. Both my parents were born and lived all their lives here. I admit only one grandparent was born and lived all their life here the other was from Wayne County.
I signed the petition for the Charter and I took petitions and got them signed and what's more I knew exactly what I was doing and there was nothing "fishy" about anything I did. Since I consider myself as having "common sense" I know the motive behind me doing what I have done. I want more control of the county in the hands of the county officials and not the state officials most of whom I don't know. I want decisions that effect me made by the people who live here not in Nashville. I want to be able to have a say in the taxes I'm forced to pay. I want to be able to attend government meetings instead of relying on this blog to know what's going on. The Charter don't give full control to the county but it gives more than we have now.
I voted for Mrs Vanzant and I've known Tee Jackson since he was born. I don't always agree with everything they do but I sure haven't tried to replace them.
You already have all of those things 10:36. You did not mention one thing that the charter will give you that is different from the current form of gevernment. You can go to meetings if you want. The meetings are always listed in the paper and on the WKSR website. You have a voice through you commissioner as to how you want them to vote for tax increases. The decisions that have the biggest effect on you are made locally.
Why don't you go to the meetings now? Unless you live under a rock, you should know when the dates and times will be. This blog is also not a good indication and overview of what goes on in those meetings. I have attended meetings that Barrett wrote about and his negative biased attitude is clear. He will lead you to believe things that aren't true. You better start thinking for yourself.
The common citizen that has responsibility to his or her employer does not have the luxury to attend 9 am meetings. If the government cared they would schedule the meetings at a time when the majority of the citizens have the option of attending with out facing a personal financial impact.
Will the County Government be so willing to change the meetings for the citizens on their own?
10:19
You do not have time to read Barrett's epistles but he lied.
Do you mind informing us to what he lied about?
And if you are not here to read the blog are you here to try to stir up trouble?
The Highway Committee changed for a few and nobody showed up. There are a large number of people in the county that work 2nd and 3rd shift. They have the opportunity to attend meetings but they don't. Have you called your 3 commissioners and requested that they hold meetings at different times? In the end, do you really think there would be a large increase in the number of citizens that attended meetings if they were held at 5pm? I can think of plenty of excuses why they wouldn't show up.
I would like to see all meetings taped and posted on the internet so the people that can't attend can see how their commissioner voted or acted.
Even just see what went on and not have to hear it from a bias person.
11:59 have you tried to sit in the meeting room at the highway dept where the meetings are held. When did they ever hold their meetings in the evening? 5PM would probably not see many more attending since most work until 4:30 or 5.
I challenge you to call either of the commissioners in the 7th district and either get them on the phone or have them return a call.
I like the idea of 12:08 even if they were broadcast on the radio it would help.
The highway dept meetings are held at Suntrust. Someone was taping the meetings and posting them on another blog but it was a failure. Apparently nobody was interested enough to watch them.
I am sure some of the commissioners don't want to talk to people that constantly call and complain about everything. That is not productive.
I also have attended those meetings in the past. WAB does a decent job of reporting what goes on, as well as the "professional" journalists that are in attendance.His spin is not any more noticeable against the elected officials than some of the reporters spin for the elected officials. 10:50 is right, everyone needs to start thinking for themselves.I am not sure how I feel yet about the charter. Some parts of it look good and make sense, some of it I am not to sure about. I do hope everyone will take the time to read it for themselves and not rely on someone else to tell them what is in it. The parts I liked I have already talked to several commissioners about. I found them for the most part to be receptive to what I was saying and I felt like we had an adult intelligent conversation about the issues. On a few points we agreed to disagree, we both decided to listen to more discussion about the items in question.It can be done.
10:36 Excellent post! You made several points for many of us.
12:38 How do you or anyone know no one watched it?
I didn't know I could watch it.
I watched a few commissioners meeting, but whoever taped it quit tapying and posting it where I could see it.
Tell us where we can watch it.
I know a few things have been taped and anyone on cable in Pulaski could see it. But most of Giles county isn't on that cable. Please put it on the internet.
12:39 Good post and the idea of we can agree and disagree is correct. No need for this angry.
I'm not sure where I stand on the charter at this time.
GTC Says:
I have attempted to read and digest the proposed Home Rul Charter, that is posted on the Pulaski Citizen web site. There are items with which I do not agree and there are many items with which I do agree.
I do like the requirement that the County Executive be segregated from the County Commission; thereby providing that position veto authority over Commission activities. Of course, the Commission has the authority to override any veto with a 2/3 vote.
I also like, very much, the requirement that this County will have to have financial management plans supporting operational budgets and capital expenditure budgets. It is amazing that this County does not do this. How can our Commission plan for the future with no future plans?
I commend the item that requires elected Commissioners and the County Executive must have a GED education at a minimum.
Term limits for Commissioners and the County Executive are also a good thing. This will allow voters to have a fresh bunch of officials every 8 years. I also like that a previously elected Commissioner/County Executive can run for another 2 terms if they sit out one full term.
Why would anyone presume that bad features of this charter would improve. I understand a charter is very very hard to get rid of once a county has it..we don't need that misery here.
The ones pushing it should be of utmost concern.
1:13,
If you get all of your information from this blog you would know where you could have watched them. There was a topic about it. They quit posting videos. It showed how many times the videos had been viewed and it wasn't many.
If the voters are happy with their commissioners, why force them to vote for someone else? Doesn't make much sense to me.
Barrett reports what fits his agenda. Paul Manke reports without bias. Who are you trying to fool 12:39?
11:59 exactly, you make plenty of excuses. The majority of citizens do not work 2nd or 3rd shift. My three commissioners are not representatives that return calls.
If any one can make it to the meetings and tape them I will be happy to post them on the internet. Because of other projects and a new job with conflicting hours of the meetings I am unable to make it to the meetings to tape them.
If you want to get in touch about taping the meetings please e-mail
freepulaski@yahoo.com
If some one is in good with the pes channel they can request a copy of the commission meetings that they recorded and I will be happy to post that. They may not let you have it, even though the paperwork with the city says PES is to have the channel as a public access channel for the people they quietly slipped it into the hands of a private company and the rules for public access no longer apply for the citizens. But you can try.
I appreciate any ones help in providing me the footage of the meetings.
3:25 Thanks for offering to put the video on the internet. I sure hope someone will video it. Sorry I csn't be there to do it.
2:11 said the one pushing it sould be of uymost consern. I agree with that only I think the ones against it should be of utmost concern. That could just be the ones it might effect.
Home rule charters are as easy to get rid of as it is to vote one in. All you have to do is have a majority of the citizens vote it out and return to the General form of government where the State Legislature has say over County ordances (known as Special Acts).
Knox and Shelby counties have been under home rule charters since the 1990's. Btoh charters have been reviewed and updated by popular demand and both counties continue to be run under their respective charter. In neither county is there a current movement to vote their charter out.
Davidson and Morre counties each have been under a Metro form of government as long.
Uh...more on Knox and Shelby Couny difficulties with charter a little later on.
5:01 If you come up with those counties being taken to court over the term limits, at least post the complete story - term limits ARE constitutional (consider the President of the United States)and when some county commissioners tried to get those term limits overturned, those commissioners lost! Our Charter Commissioners had in hand copies of those judgements when they wrote the charter.
The Tennessee State Supreme Court has upheld term limits as established by any County Charter.
Some of the Knox County Commissioners fought term limits; they lost, and had to pay all costs to the court and the other side; per the Supreme Court ruling.
If you doubt me; I suggest that you look up Supreme Court rulings and search "county commissioner term limits".
Term limits are a non-issue.
yes, yes, yes, yes, yes for the Charter. Obviously it is wanted because of the vote to have Charter Commissioners. They have done their work and now it's time for the people to support it. They did a great job. The commission worked really hard to try and sabbitouge(SP) their work. Don't give the commission the satisfaction of winning.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no to the charter. It's something we do NOT need and which is being pushed by a small group of unhappy and dangerous people. Let's defeat this thing at the voting booth and, if they are even more displeased, encourage them to consider relocating.
I address this to Friday 7:32: I am just guessing that you do not remember much about the early history of America or you wouldnt make such comments. The early settlers and subsequently the Founding Fathers of this nation were all considered in their time to be "a small group of unhappy and dangerous people" as you put it.
To Thursday 2:19 I have also attended a few meetings in the past. How can Paul Manke report anything when he arrives at the city council meeting just in time to hear them adjourn then has to go ask for copies of meeting minutes and question people in the audience as to what happened?
MMC Student would like to say:
I have read this charter and it seems to be a good thoughtout piece of work. What really makes me wonder is how some people on this blog, and other blogs, when in disagreement with another person revert to personal attacks rather than attempting to stay with facts relating to the bolg subject
8:27 I've been wondering the same thing. Only thing I can think of is afraid of them or someone they love loosing their job.
9:15 I don't think anyone is afraid of losing a job. There's just too many bad things that can happen with a charter. I believe the group that's pushing this charter is doing so because they want to get those people out of office via term limits even though those elected were put there by the will of the people. They can't defeat them at the voting booth, so this is just a tact they can use. What happened to the will of the people?
I'm also very concerned about revenues when they are needed, and the possibility that the state will cut off funds we would normally get without the charter. That can be denied by this group, but it is a very real possibility. Then what? Oh, I suppose people will go to the voting booth and ask for a tax increase. I don't think so. Then what?
We just don't need this mess.
MMC Student responds to 9:47
To respond to your specific concerns - I have read this charter and establishing term limits allows those who would like to run for an elected office to do so. You might agree that any encumbant is normally re-elected in Giles County just on the fact that they are an encumbant. If a previously elected official wishes to be elected again (after serving two terms), all they have to do is sit out one term and they are good to go for another two terms. That would allow them to serve 16 years in a 20 year period. Several of our current Commissioners are an example of this; Mr. Woodard of the 4th District comes to mind. Anyway temr limits are being imposed upon only the County Commission and the County Executive.
There is nothing in Tennessee law that prohibits counties under Home Rule, or even Metro, Charters to be denied State funding. What this charter does is to require that the Giles County government begin financial planning with zero based budgets and multi-year financial plans.
It seems only reasonable that the Giles County government should make a fair and logical case before its citizens when requesting additional funding rather than depleting the reserve funds with no public input. I am willing to bet that the vast majority of Giles County citizens have no clue that there was a substantial reserve fund (begining in around 2004) which has now been depleted to the point that Giles County is now using restricted (not to be used) funds that the Commission stated could not be used.
How can this charter make it more of a mess than what we are experiencing now? Looking at current financial expenditures and current revenue levels; I am willing to bet that the current Commission will be forced to implement a wheel tax and/or raise the property rate by at least 20 cents. If the county government does not reduce spending (at current 2012 levels) Giles County will be in the hole by approximately $1,500,000.00 in 2013 (assuming that they don't continue to use the restricted Hospital Fund).
mmc
And when Giles County goes in the hole, I'm sure voters will vote themselves a tax increase. Right.
I have no problem with an encumbent sitting out four years and going back. But the will of the voters is foremost in importance. They should be allowed to elect whomever they please.
MMC Student respinds to 10:44
I believe that currently there are sufficient revenue funds if the County government officials took a serious look at what is being spent and how it is being spent. Ther is waste in the current budget.
Did you realize that "Continuing Effort" funding does not include capital spending? It is to be implsed only on operational funding. So when the school system demands funding for additional school buses; the school system should get that funding for one year only and not for ever. This is per State Comptroller and Attorney General rulings.
Do you really believe that the Giles County governemnt is incapable of presenting a financial plan to the public and make a logical case for a tax increase, either temporary or permanent?
Then whay are there term limits at State and Federal levels? With life-time restrictions?
MMC,
Very well put, I have not made up my mind and have only browsed the proposed charter so far. Your points are what many on here have pointed out to be brushed aside or attacked and accused of trying to gain power.
In a Charter form of government my first instinct is no, because I think that less laws and rules on the books are better.
But when it comes to governments accountability to the citizens, the more aware I have become of our local governments actions a charter may not be a bad idea. But also allowing those commissioners the power of passing local ordinances frightens me to death.
I do wish there were a way of enforcing local rules without the citizens having to file a class action suit against the county government for mis-appropriation of funds, just so they will enforce the rules that exist on the books. The government needs to understand that every cent that passes through their hands is not theirs but the peoples and when it comes to our money their only duty is to manage it. Maybe that is the way to send a message to government. If the commissioners are negligent with the handling our money do we as stock holders not have the right to sue as any stockholder in a corporation may sue its board or officers?
These people actually are trying to gain some measure of power that they simply cannot win at the voting booth. We don't need more rules, regs, and restrictions, although I would totally agree that government should be held accountable. The only ones saying our local government is not being accountable are the same ones pushing this charter. Think about it.
1:32 PM So Missey, how are you gonna make the commissioners accountable? YOU cant do it now.
1:16
Its a shame citizens have to file a lawsuit against their government to make them comply with even the current laws which for the most part are ignored in our county. But thats what we have to do. Most of us cant afford to waste our money in that manner.
I am voting for the Charter and I have no fear of any Ordinances the commissioners might come up with. We need to remember the commissioners won't come up with anything unpopular if the charter goes through because they are too concerned with the number of votes they would lose when we go to the voting booths. A good example is Zoning Laws. Yes, it was indeed voted in in 2003 but is unforced. Why? Not because of the lawsuit thats sitting on the books because that does not have an affect on implementing laws, but because it was passed mostly by commissioners that live in town and already live under zoning laws so it made no difference to them. Zoning is widely unpopular with folks living in the county and Ms Vanzant and the current commissioners don't enforce zoning due to the number of votes that will lose. And thats it. Period.
The problem is right now, without severely cutting the services the county is supposed to provide, nobody can cut enough out of the budget to balance it. That is fact. If the charter is put into place and they balance the budget, the county and the citizens of the county will suffer. There is going to have to be a tax increase in the near future. You can listen to any commissioner that has a brain in their head and they will tell you the same thing. I am tired of hearing people talk about all this wasteful spending, yet they never come up with more than a few thousand dollars in cuts. Pick the needle up off the record please.
I agree with C. G the people should be allowed to vote/elect who ever they want.
I think the state and Federal Government should change their rule of only being allowed to run two terms.
We need Halsam and Obama for twenty more years.
I agree with C. G the people should be allowed to vote/elect who ever they want.
I think the state and Federal Government should change their rule of only being allowed to run two terms.
We need Halsam and Obama for twenty more years.
How about showing proof the Knox and Shelby County have been turned down funding from the state instead of just saying the state wouldn't help us.
Who said Knox and Shelby Counties were losing state funding? I believe those were your words.
More on Knox and Shelby County difficulties with their charters a little later on. Stay tuned.
They won't come up with any ordinances that are unpopular. I have to say that is a big joke.
9:47 said "I'm also very concerned about revenues when they are needed, and the possibility that the state will cut off funds we would normanlly get without the charter." 9:47 also said the ones pushing the charter would say they wouldn't loose state funds.
Knox and Shelby County has the charter so why say that if you gaven't heard they didn't get their funds?
My opinion is 3:22 and 9:47 are the same person, CG.
People in the county have very few services provided under this current multimillion dollar budget. Roads are in terrible shape, no garbage pickup, not enough deputies to cover the county adequately and still water not to every household it would be reasonable to expect.
Cuts should occur in the number of county employees and their benefits. The budgets of each individual department should be addressed line by line. Expect there are many other places other posters would like to see reduced or eliminated. Let's hear your suggestions.
I have a question, on one of these threads someone said something about some county employees not paying anything on their retirement. I would like hat explained. I thought your employer paid the same amount toward your retirement as you did.
Were they saying the county was paying the employees part of the retirement also?
I would have liked for line items that failed to pass for inclusion in the budget to have stayed out of the budget instead of supplying a commissioner, who voted in favor of the position, with a job.
I want a government that does not speculate in real estate, $200,000+ of tax dollars in the Hunter Smith Building, then insurance, improvements, inspections, drawn blueprints, etc. Then hand it over to the above commissioners church for $50,000.
Over a quarter of a million dollars down the drain.
Our government needs to care about fiscal responsibility.
5:56
If our county opts for a charter they very likely will find out too late that it was a huge and expensive mistake the taxpayers will pay for. Then what will you think of this little band of unhappy people who are behind it? Will you defend them?
What would be the huge and expensive mistake? Would you please provide specific details?
Thanks
Will you defend your statements 7:41? 8:17 asked a good question, as it has been shown that "huge expense" is false? It will actually save us money. How will it be a mistake if it benefits the tax payers and the citizens vote it in?
8:35 I would like to know that too.
If proved what how it would be an expense that could change lots of minds. Bud just a suggestion want be believed.
6:35 PM Not sure of the % but I believe the employee pays toward their retirement and the county also kicks in a portion.
What bothers me still is a year or so ago it was stated the employees would pay $40 towards their own health insurance but I still dont think that has happened. Anyone know about that?
I know 20 plus years ago the county matched the amount the employee paid in retirement and social security.
Someone had said some employees wasn't paying anything on their retirement. I wanted to know how that worked because I don't believe it can.
Check the records county employees pay nothing for their insurance and if anything is paid toward retirement it is way below what non county employees pay. Benefits for county employees run about 20,000 per.
12:29 Yes it's a know fact the county employees get free insurance.
What I can't understand is how the county employee pays less toward their retirement than non county employees.
Social Security, the employer has to match what the employee pays. Same thing for retirement. If less is paid in for retirement, then they want get as much when they retire.
Legally how could the county pay the employees part of retirement.
MMC Student Comments:
All of the preceeding are excellent questions. These should be presented to the County Executive and the Finance Director, possibly in writing and request a written response.
It is nice to be the golden egg and be the major source of employment for Giles County; however, in these troubled financial times the County needs to be a frugal as the average citizen. It is not right to take from an employee'd pocket (in the form of taxes) so that you can continue to fund benifits. If the employee wants a certain level of benifits; they ought to now step up and contribute a fair share and not ask all of us to fund their benifits.
There's nothing to prevent the county from paying all the retirement benefits of employees. Social Security is not a retirement plan it's a government handout program that is partly funded by the receiver of the funds.
5:40 but why, it has been shown County employees are above the regular folk. How dare you ask them to pay their fair share.
7:50
Please stop trying to stir up needless trouble. What you said is simply not true. How dare you!
10:24
prove it
MMC Student Comments:
When FDR established Social Security it was with the intent to provide a safety net for those people who were financialy disadvantaged; it was never ment to be a retirement program. Over the years Congerss (both Democrats and Republicans) have altered this program to be the sole financial support system for all (including members of Congress) of us when retiring.
7:02
Why can't you stop trying to get something stirred up? Giles County employees are not "above the regular folk", and they certainly are not treated as such. Therefore, what you accuse them of is a lie. Have fun with that.
Just who is the county paying all their retirement for?
Do you really think terry Harwell was treated like a regular citizen when he attacked a private citizen and proclaimed himself untouchable? Do you really think Vanzant is treated the same as a regular citizen when she is caught in a lie? Do you really think when McGill was stopped for DUI he was treated like a regular citizen, it took regular citizens to even get it put in the newspaper.You gotta be kidding right.
The County pays retirement for any and all employees of Giles County to include; County Executive, County Commissioners, School System employees, Highway Department employees, Sheriff's Department employees, EMS employees, Courthouse employees and anyone elso who gets a check (hourly or salaried).
But not the Fire and Rescue Squad who are volunteers.
8:12
Here you go again with Terry Harwell. He never declared himself untouchable. Those are your words. However, I believe he conducted himself in a much better manner than I would have.
What lie was Mrs. Vanzant caught in? How is she treated differently other than by you guys?
If Steve Mcgill pulled strings to get the charge dismissed, I too would have a problem with that. But do you know this for a fact, or are you just spreading gossip? I thought the blogmaster frowned on gossip and rumor?
Here's what I believe to be the long and short of it. You guys have no political power, and you just can't seem to stand it. You think you have all the answers and we don't want to hear them.
"I am an elected official, what are you going to do about it?"
8:52
Why don't you clal Terry and ask him to explain why he said that? You know as well as I do that we often blurt out things in anger when someone has pushed out buttons. You know that.
8:13 The county is suppose to match what the employee pays.
Say 25 dollars is taken out of the teachers check for retirement the county also pays 25 dollars making 50 dollars going into the retirement fund for that teacher.
I want to know did someone say the county is paying the 50 dollars and the teacher paying nothing into the retirement? I'm finding that very hard to believe.
Read up on Tennessee retirement.
Maybe the county did decide to pay all the retirement in the last few years, if they did they don't need a raise they would be a good one.
Everyone elected to government needs to take a class in angry management. You will get your feelings hurt one way or another so be sure you can handle it. You have to set a good example.
I don't know what all had gone on before the chili cookout with the harwells and hughes, but Terry sure set a bad example threating hughes with his BIG job.
When Vanzant is moving her lips she is lying. How about the lie that she didn't live in Lincoln County when she ran for County Executive. How about the lie she told about not calling in the state to shut down the work being done on the Hunter Smith building? How about the lie she told about the beer permit to the stop and chat and then the lie about requiring 2/3 votes when only a simple majority was needed. How about the lie she told about all county insurance being bid.
2:53
Yours is just a prime example of the name-calling and attacks you guys are so used to doing when it comes to those officials you either do not like or resent for whatever reason. What you are doing is wrong, and I will, the lord willing, continue to point it out to you.
Get over it. Mrs. Vanzant beat your candidate in a fair election, and the will of the people should be respected.
I did no name calling 8:37 asked what lie did Mrs Vanzant get caught in and I told three of them. Only name calling would have been in the readers mind, so obviously you thought she was a liar after reading the examples given. Don't accuse others of your actions.
8:37 You said "WE" (who is we?) don't want to hear them. I believe there could be a few we's that don't want to hear you.
Now come back with you'll be here. So will I.
4:20
As barrett says, give us the PROOF. No, I don't think Mrs. Vanzant lied, and it's the fact that anyone like me has the nerve to disagree with you guys is where the real problem lies, isn't it? I have a right to see things the way I choose just as you do.
6:20
The "us" refers to the VAST majority of Giles Countians who don't want to hear what a handful (or less) of troublemakers have to say.
Looks like we will both be here, the Lord willing.
Can we not cease with the personal attacks?
Looks to me like anyone with the nerve to disagree with vanzant is your problem.
7:44
Well here you are again. What a hoot.
You can diisagree with Mrs. Vanzant all you want, but I really don't think that would give you the right to call her nasty names. Can you see that subtle difference, or do you want to argue that point as well?
Vanzant lied and earned the title liar.
Are you claiming that Vanzant actually lived in Giles County when she ran for county executive that is about the most easily verified lie she hjas told.
4:09
The only name calling in post 2:53 was saying vanzant lied. How many times have you posted WAB lied?
Are you now making up things?
9:50
I really don't know or care where Mrs. Vanzant lives and would have no idea if she lied or not. However, she does live in Giles County if that helps you any.
I suppose you guys are going to get back on this again?
6:46
I will call wab or any of his one or two followers a liar each and every time I'm accused of willfully going along with wrong. That does seem quite often, because they can't seem to let it go. It has slacked off some, because I'm now being scoffed at for claiming to be a Christian and a gentleman. It just never ends.
Let us try some thing different
Let us stay on subject and cease with the personal attacks; that goes for everyone. You don't have to have the last word.
Just drop the personal remarks and discuss the subject
And let CG have the last word. No way.
He accuses others of things then he can do it and it's ok?
He even dreams people call names when they don't.
I haven't been the one talking about where vanzant lives, but I heard a year or two ago she built a house in Giles county.
Vote for the charter. Is that alright 7:32?
CG
In response to your question, examples were given where Mrs Vanzant did not tell the truth. What is your explanation of each those examples?
8:40
Just because someone says it's so doesn't make it so. I could say I am Mickey Mouse if I wanted to.
8:24
I say defeat the charter. And I know that is ok.
2:38 And I could say I'm at Christian Gentleman, but that wouldn't make it so would it.
Or even say I'm Moses but that wouldn't make it so.
4:04 What you won't say is why the example of Vanzant lies ain't really lies.
OK ... one more time Let us try some thing different
Let us stay on subject and cease with the personal attacks; that goes for everyone. You don't have to have the last word.
Just drop the personal remarks and discuss the subject
4:04 Not unless your behavior and the way you treat others is becoming of a Christian and a gentleman. You are right about that.
4:42 Are you CG?
What was the subject. Oh the charter. Werll I'm going to vote for it. Didn't mean to at first but think it will be best for Giles County.
If something isn't done Giles county will be bankrupt. So sad the hospital sale is what is keeping it afloat.
Vote in the charter and Pulaski becomes a ghost town or perhaps a real retirement center. Yep, that sounds brilliant.
MMC Student Asks 12:09:
How in the world does the County Home Rule Charter affect the City of Pulaski?
If you bothered to read this proposed charter, you would realize that none of the municipalities in Giles County are affected. They will continue to operate on thier own charters that are currently in place. The proposed Charter is for Home Rule; not, repeat, not a Metro form of government.
But you knew that; didn't you.
12:09 On the contrary. If the charter gets voted in we will begin to see signs of better and improved government which might, in turn, bring in more people willing to reside here.
By the way, you ARE going to be a busy (female)bee campaigning against the charter, Pres. Obama, Gov. Haslam and Mr. Summerlin. Anyone else?
12:25
You bet I'm going to be a busy man out there working against those three. That's my constitutional right.
I will also do what I can to see the charter defeated. That is also my right. Thanks.
Where in the Constitution does it say you have the right to tell lies and make claims against people without even saying what they did that was so bad. No Christian much less a Christian gentleman would use such underhanded tactics.
2:28
Well, there you go again trying to get something stirred up.
What lies have I told and what false claims have I made? Since when did our Constitution forbid us from speaking out against or questionning government officials? Is this not what you guys are constantly harping on? I believe it is, and you are really really beginning to look not so smart.
I have a CONSTITUTIONAL right to speak out against those I think need to go just as you do. There's nothing underhanded about that, so relax.
By the way, I remain proud to call myself a follower of Christ as well as a gentleman. It makes no difference if you accept that or not. The Lord does.
You lied about Haslem and Somerville
wanting to hurt teachers, you lied about the state cutting off funds to the county if the Charter passed, you made negative smear innuendo against the Gov. and Sen.
8:59 But he sure don't want you to smear vanzant, harwell and campbell's name.
Or to ask about the hospital fund.
8:59 (10:12)
Would you stop lying and trying to stir up trouble? Could you do that for just ONE day?
No, I did not lie about Haslam and Somerville. It's proveable, and all you need to do is have the courape to accept the truth when you discover it.
I did not lie about the state cutting off funds if our county was so foolish as to vote themselves a charter. I suggested that as a very distinct possibility which has not been disproven. No, you are the one who is lying about that as well.
Look, not everyone agrees with or sees things your way. They have that right. Deal with it and stop acting like a child. I won't throw rocks at you if you vote for them next time, so please show me that same respect.
8:04
Your statement that the county would lose state funding if the charter goes through here or in any other county, is totally incorrect and I am sure you know it. I won't use the word 'lie' but its obvious you post it to influence people against the charter. If you are so sure the state would withdraw money then post the law that says so. I can understand why many people think you are the county employee who sits on the second floor of the courthouse as lose of state funding is Tommy Campbell's favorite line against the charter. Ask him to provide you with a non-false and better reason.
Did the state cut off funding for the other counties that use the charter?
Strange we haven't seen it on TV or the newspaper.
That story sounds like the one that goes around when the commissioners want to raise taxes or a wheel tax. "If we don't then the ambulance will stop." That's what they think will hurt people the most.
8:29
No, I actually do not know about state funding, but we who are on the other side of this issue will be finding out soon. I simply asked if that were a possibility. I totally agree wtih those who plan to fight the charter, and I plan to help all I can. I love Giles County and do not want to see something put in place that could cause serious problems.
The Charter is not going to pass. I don't know why you keep arguing about it. The citizens of Giles County have never voted for anything Barrett, Billard and that whole group of crybabies stood behind. Quit getting so torn up about it.
9:00
We just need to make sure it doesn't pass.
Well finally you told the truth about something, "No, I actually do not know about state funding".
I admire your commitment to "find out about it soon", I would suggest until you find out you shouldn't do so much talking about it that way you don't sound so stupid.
9:45
Again, we just need to make sure it is defeated. And I believe we will. When people understand who is behind it, that should seal the deal.
8:04 Why are you trying to stir up trouble for the Governor?
10:32 Bigot is defined as, "a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially one who regards or treats the members of a group with hatred and intolerance".
Your statement reveals you to be a bigot of the worse sort. The very idea of being against something because of who happens to be for it.
2:12
Here we go again.
Wrong. I am against the charter for a number of reasons, and that is my right. You guys seem to be the intolerant once...intolerant of anyone with a differing view.
But, in addition to those reasons, the very fact that I know the people who are behind this thing is reason enough alone to be against it.
2:31 is there any other reason other than the people you perceive to be behind it?
2:31 I mean specifics as I have not made up my mind which to support. A required balanced budget and future budget projections seem good for all citizens. What are some specific negatives outlined in the Charter you are against?
Term limits for Commissioners and executive, education requirements for commissioners and executive, meeting to be held at night, not allowed to raise taxes when needed, executive not allowed to be chairman of the county commission.
Why is the governor and president ot allowed to run but two terms?
it's the law and that is what the people wanted
Why do you have issues with holding meetings at night so more citizens are able to attend?
And why should the citizens not have a say in raising taxes? Would the commissioners not feel more accountable to the citizens and responsible to the citizens if they knew they no longer to have a blank check. Maybe items that did not pass proper procedure to be included in the budget, like Terry Harwell's job would not be longer be pushed through by the County Executive without a peep from a single commissioner.
In my opinion not allowing a person to run more than two terms in a row is good. Sit out a term and then run again. What is so bad about that except it may do away with some complacency in our government.
The only thing I find undesirable is the education criteria. Elected positions are for every citizen regardless of their formal education. Their qualifications can be discussed by the voters and the voters should be the ones to decide who is elected and not a criteria of education. I see a lot of good with a charter but with the education I do wander if that is even legal, and not discriminatory.
It has already been proven that discrimination exists in our local government and I do not think it needs to exist in our charter, but if our elected officials actually would be responsible in their positions, a need for a charter would not exist.
Look at the current situation of Mrs. Garner and the handling of funds, contrary to local rules, and the commissioners unwillingness to address the situation and enforce the rules. Something does need to be done in this county.
2:29 ok it's the law and what people want.
People in Giles County want that for their county officials, so why can't they have it.
3:08
There is no need for a charter to exist here. And NOBODY who is pushing it in Giles County ever heard of Ben Cunningham? What a laugh.
MMC Student Asks:
Why not have an educational requirement? At first I thought that was a dumb issue until I saw that you could have flunked out of kindergarden and still be a Commissioner or County Executive. I can not imagine anyone being asked to oversee or manage an organization that has a multi-million dollar budget and you can't read. A High School education or a GED should be the minimum; that is what the proposed charter requires. In this day and age, our managers and government officials should be able to read and write.
Just my opinion.
Because not every one who does not receive an education flunks out of school. If you only allow those to run for office that have a formal education to a specified level then not every man is being represented. Our county and country as a whole is comprised of both the formally educated and those who are not. I choose to protect and value a citizens rights not only the formally educated citizens rights. The Constitution gives all citizens equal rights regardless of the education level one receives.
On a different note, a formal education is a powerful tool to have, provided you are schooled in the right curriculum to manage a counties budget. Is a psychology major any more qualified to make decisions on setting a budget, writing laws, or any of the other business decisions that a county commissioner has to make, than a person who has been involved running the day to day operations and balancing the books in their families business.
By setting education levels it allows for the discrimination of one group because of a preconceived bias towards another group based upon a non proven perception of intelligence. Where does it stop? If a guy or gal is not mentally capable of the job description but chooses to run for office and the public elects him then the public deserves to live with their decision.
I personally do not want any laws that benefit one group over another group. Like I stated above a lot of good things could be accomplished with a charter; but separating the rights of citizens based on education levels I do not believe is one of them.
4:29
What you said about this charter makes the point that we do NOT need it. This so-called education requirement is but one of many things people are not going to like about it if the charter passes. But it's too late then
One of my biggest concerns about this charter is the small group of people who are behind it. That alone frightens me. It should concern all of us. I believe these people want to change the rules, because they can't get a foothold in county government as it is now. Giles Countians need to be aware to beware and defeat this thing before it has a chance to grow.
MMC Student Comments to 4:29:
I understand and appreciate your position about the educational requirement. But, do you not believe that it is very important that those how are responsible for the care and well being of our County should have the basic capability to read and write? A high school education or a GED is not a high achevement.
Many employers, including Giles County and the State of Tennessee, require this very basic level of education for you to be hired.
It is my opinion that it is better for our County Executive and Commission to be able to read and understand contracts, proposals and financial documents since it is our money with which they are controlling.
But again I do understand and appreciate your opinion and position.
To 6:59 AM
You have made it very clear that you are against the proposed Charter because of the "small group of people who are behind it". You have also stated that there are many things regarding this proposed Charter that you do not like. What might those things be?
Just an observation on my part; there were over 3,000 people who voted to have this Charter written and to be presented for approval (that is not a small group of people). That is about 1/3 of the registered voters in Giles County. If all of those 3,000 people vote for this Charter, it wil pass.
Thank You
I don't know any of the small group (6:59's words) that are behind the charter, so that is no reason for me to vote against it.
Not long ago someone posted about some of the commissioners being dumb, said just listen to him talk.
I've known a few very educated people that didn't even know how to change a light bulb.
When we vote anyone in, we deserve them just like obama and vanzant. A lot of people voted for them so we are stuck with them.
Pray they vot different next time.
We cant expect the charter as written to be perfect for everyone. There are a couple of things in it that I wish were different. Nevertheless, I will be voting FOR the charter as there are improvements that would benefit everyone.
Do I want an engineer from Huntsville to run our County? NO!
But I would like for my elected official to be able to read and write
what we would like and what is a person's rights are two different things.
I would like for my elected officials not to be bigoted in thinking, abuse their power and idly watch as our county employees flagrantly violate policies implemented to protect the citizens money, but that doesn't seem like that is the way they choose to conduct business.
10:19
Is the kettle calling the pot black again?
5:22 How so?
5:22 I would also like to know how
10:19 was a kettle calling the pot black?
One of the most brilliant men that ever lived was a janitor in a college. If MMC student wants to appear smart, they better learn that a college education doesn't make someone smart. I got my diploma the say day as a lot of folks that I wouldn't trust to change a tire on my car. An education doesn't make someone a genuis. All it takes to run a county is common sense.
Get off your high horse MMC Student. I know they teach liberal hogwash up there. You have been listening to Wiggins a little too much.
MMC Student says to 8:13 PM
I totally agree that a formal and higher education degree does not make a person a genuis; and, I do not necessarily want a genuis to run Giles County.
I would like for our elected officials to be able to read and write.
That is why a GED or a High School degree id acceptable. I assume that you do understand that I am not proposing a higher education degree, just a GED or HS degree.
I am still curios how the kettle was calling the pot black since I wrote 10:19.
Discrimination is the prejudicial treatment of an individual based on their membership in a certain group or category. It involves the actual behaviors towards groups such as excluding or restricting members of one group from opportunities that are available to another group.
The Constitution doesn't state any educational requirements to become President of the United States of America.
This hate-promoting blog needs to shut down immediately.
And you need to go some where else and whine 3:16.
4:11
Not whining; just pointing out an urgent need that could benefit our county.
To 10:26
Obviously .... the smart ones run from that job.
Look at who is running
like if you left it 4:48
"One of the most brilliant men that ever lived was a janitor in a college" who pray tell was this underachiever?
Getting a high school diploma or a GED isn't just about an education but about discipline. Some sit in classrooms and don't absorb anything
while others are intelligent but have to drop out because of finances. A 50 year old who wants to be a commissioner would have no problem getting a GED if they were willing to tackle such a goal. The problem with not being disciplined enough to get at least a GED is an indication of how that person would function as a commissioner or anything else.
Presidents are required to be "Native Born"; "Live in the country 14 years" and "be at least 35 years of age". The requirement to be at least 35 would be age discrimination to some. There are many educational requirements for different offices and the simple matter of a GED or to be able to read and write are minimal at worst.
I do not think you can compare age requirements with educational requirements fairly. the authors of the Constitution do seem to believe that experience whether gained from hands on experience in a working environment or from formal education was not differentiated, but a level of maturity must be gained before taking the responsibility of that office. However, many much more educated men sat in on the penning of the document and education levels never made it into the document. Why is that? Perhaps because the country was founded on the premise that it is a government for the people by the people. The people are both educated and uneducated.
Age requirements are not banning any one from running or are making any one meet a requirement that can not be attained by every one naturally. It may delay some one from running this year but not when they reach the required age so nothing has been taken or denied. All citizens that meet citizenship and age requirements are eligible or are potentially eligible provided they reach the age of 35.
Are some of the uneducated people more capable than the formally educated. In my opinion absolutely.
In my opinion education requirements are just another way for one group to take away another groups rights and then to tell them they are doing it for their own good. I do not have a taste for that type of discriminating ideology.
In our system put the candidates out there and let the voters decide. I would like my candidate to be able to read and right as well. So I vote for candidates that can read and write. In addition you might be taking away my right to vote for the best candidate. I may not feel that any of the educated candidates are trustworthy or worthy to represent me and deserving of my vote.
12:25
I would agree with you. There are those candidates who have more education but less integrity and common sense. They do not get my vote. I consider the ones I believe to be the best fit. And when the voters have spoken, that should be the end of the matter.
This "best fit" concept can easily be extrapolated to the hiring process. Why should an employer be forced to hire someone who doesn't seem to get along with others or one who is a known troublemaker? What if that same person had an advanced degree but no people skills or character?
6:43 You are right when the voter scot that should be the endof the matter.
The voters voted for Obama. He's our president end of the matter.
Whoever the Republican candidate is will be getting my vote. And when the votes are counted that Republican will be my president.
8:15 I hope you are right about when the votes are counted.
But I can't keep from laughing at how CG is over this election and how mad he got at people being against Vanzant, Harwell and Campbell in that election.
We all have people we distrust in office. Think!
That's exactly why I will campaign and vote against Haslam, Somerville, and Obama. That's my right. Think.
The Sheriff is required to have a high school diploma or a GED along with a current Peace Officer Certification and cleared by a Mental Health Professional.
All School Board members are required to have a High School Diploma or GED.
Highway Supervisor is required to have a High School Diploma or GED with four years experience as a supervisor in highway construction or maintenance.
There are many government positions that require certain education levels. Would we be better served by removing those educational requirements? Should judges be required to have law degrees?
Does having an education make you smarter than someone without it? That's not even a legitimate question under the circumstances, but diplomas and tests are indications just as experience is an indicator but not the authority of what a person knows or can do. When I was thirteen I worked on a coke delivery truck but that didn't mean I could drive a truck.
A person with experience digging ditches may know everything about the job using a shovel but nothing using a ditch witch or heavy machinery.
I also would like to know who is referred to by the poster who stated, "One of the most brilliant men that ever lived was a janitor in a college". If this person worked in that position on his way to something better that is a big plus but if it was as the poster implied and this was as much as he ever accomplished then I would have to agree that this was perhaps the greatest underachiever who ever lived.
6:43
I disagree with your latter statements and my previous post was not meant to condone discrimination in the work place in any way, whether that be a private firm or public entity. Although I do agree that private businesses should have absolute say in who they hire all applicants should be treated equally in the application process.
Lets take for example a lady comes in that happens to be black and drops off her resume for an open position. This person is in the top three in qualifications of all applicants for that position. This person is not called back to interview and discuss the position or her qualifications. What criteria scale was used to judge this applicant was not the best fit for the job and she should not be called in for an interview? When using tax payer dollars to pay a persons salary it is the responsibility to hire the best qualified for the job and not the one that is fun to hang out with. If a person is so immature that they can not sit in the same room and accomplish a mutual goal to benefit the citizens in their respective positions with out allowing their personal prejudices to surface, then they are not deserving to hold that position in the government administration.
My statements are to confirm my belief that every one should be afforded equal opportunities. I am stating that every one has the same rights to run for office if they choose. As citizens are comprised of the formally educated and those that have gained their knowledge through labor and effort. This is not to be taken as a slight towards the educated as I am college educated.
I believe that every applicant when applying for any position that is funded with the citizen's money should be afforded equal opportunity in the application and interview process.
But I have to ask if by your statement you were hinting that Lisa may be a troublemaker?
"This "best fit" concept can easily be extrapolated to the hiring process. Why should an employer be forced to hire someone who doesn't seem to get along with others or one who is a known troublemaker? What if that same person had an advanced degree but no people skills or character?"
If you are answer yes I have to question your integrity as I know her and do not come to that same conclusion.
4:59
Wrong. I never implied that Lisa is a troublemaker. That's what you apparently inferred. I was simply making a case for the "best fit" applicant. It is my understanding that Lisa may not have been the most qualified anyway. But that's neither here nor there. The last time I heard (hearsy/gossip?) an employer should have the freedom to hire the person thought to be the best fit for the position. And there's more than one variable that enters into that decision to hire.
Let me ask you again since you want to make an issue of this. Would you hire a PhD person with a terrible attitude and zero personality over another who held only a MA but had a great personality and attitude? Would you? And that is not meant to cast aspersions on Lisa. I don't even know her.
Please don't concern yourself with my integrity. It is intact and healthy. My conscience is clear.
But you keep skirting the obvious. If you look at a person and their resume but call in for an interview 5 other candidates, two of which have less qualifications than the person you choose not to call back then what other variables have been factored in to deny the number two or three candidate the opportunity to interview, race, gender, perceived sexual orientation, wrong denomination? Please explain how these best fit criteria is calculated for government jobs in Giles County so that only the best fit good ole boys need to apply.
Integrity, you put statements out there to cast a shadow on another person and your integrity should not be questioned. In deed it should because your posts are that of a bigot.
7:01
Wrong again. Mrs. Garner has a college degree and is a certified CPA. Would you be arguing so strongly had she been black? Just wondering. For Christ's sakes; I have never seen such whining.
Good old boys? Wrong YET AGAIN. And was this a Civil Service position? I don't think so.
Your charge that I put statements out there to cast shadows on someone is nothing more than a lie. That's right; I called it a lie.
Do you find it interesting how much trouble this blog stirs up and yet frustrating that you bought into it?
7:01
Would you call Barrett a bigot for his comments about Obama at the heading of the Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire thread? If not, please explain why not. Thank you and looking forward to your response.
7:16 Just wondering how Barrett got into this matter other than for you to change the subject after getting your pants singed by 7:01 in their posts.
What Barrett wrote about the president was not bigoted since he gave very clear reasons for what he said, I think what he said was fact based and not the result of personal feelings unlike much of your rhetoric.
But others were called back that were less qualified than Lisa. That is the point. If she was not afforded an interview based on her credentials when others with less credentials were afforded an interview, just what was the reason she was denied the interview? Answer the question then I will answer yours about Barrett's comment.
Who said any thing about civil service, county administration is partially the financial management office.payer money and are accountable to the taxpayers
7:37
You missed the point. I was asking a question for the sake of comparison.
7:58
Your point is well taken. I had not heard this and hope it's not true. However, in defense of the employer, I still believe the one who is doing the hiring should be able to employ those believed to be the best fit for the job. That's my answer.
Civil service? I simply asked a question. What would you have the county do...hang Mrs. Vanzant on the public square and put barrett in as the county mayor? In addition, how about tar and feathers for Mrs. Garner and run her out of town on a rail? Would that make you people happy? If not,, what on earth do you want?
Haven't you caused enough trouble?
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