GOTCHA!!! A Lesson for the LUMPsters
Years ago, before he became a shill for the GOP, I used to enjoy listening to Rush Limbaugh. I especially enjoyed the times when he "illustrated absurdity by being absurd"... such as when he spent a whole day advocating "higher taxes for the poor."
Anyway, I’ve been trying to debate with the pro-zoners here, and there’s one argument that I’ve not quite found a handle on rebutting-- the "so what if we lose freedom argument." But a couple of days ago, it occurred to me that I could force the zoners to understand the value of freedom, by taking away a little bit of THEIR freedom, and seeing how much they liked it. And so, I decided to "zone" away a few of their favorite phrases and arguments.
(to continue reading, click "comments" below)
Anyway, I’ve been trying to debate with the pro-zoners here, and there’s one argument that I’ve not quite found a handle on rebutting-- the "so what if we lose freedom argument." But a couple of days ago, it occurred to me that I could force the zoners to understand the value of freedom, by taking away a little bit of THEIR freedom, and seeing how much they liked it. And so, I decided to "zone" away a few of their favorite phrases and arguments.
(to continue reading, click "comments" below)
posted by J. Kendrick McPeters | 10:49 PM
25 Comments:
Of course, I would only "zone" their arguments "lightly!" I wanted to follow the precedent of the LUMP, and I did just that:
My blog: copied rules from an earlier blog, and then didn't enforce them. The LUMP: copied rules from an earlier zoning plan, and then didn't enforce them.
My blog: rules changed on a dime, in order to favor me and my friends. The LUMP: rules of amendment ignored, in order to disfavor me and my amendment
My blog: has an "appeals board" made up entirely of my anti-zoning friends. The LUMP: has an "appeals board" made up entirely of pro-zoners
My blog: "you can trust in the process because Allen Barrett is a devout man" The LUMP: "you can trust in the process because Roger Reedy is a devout man"
My blog: "freedom of speech is only slightly abridged, so quit your whining" The LUMP: "property rights are only slightly abridged, so quit your whining"
I expected a lot of bellyaching, and I got it. Frankly, I had hoped for even more negative reaction, but I may have made two tactical mistakes-- first, in giving pseudo-plausible justifications for my "new policies," and second, in bringing up my glaucoma problem. Had I simply refused to defend the new policies rationally, I probably could've stirred up more indignant anger.
Well, the experiment is over. The nonexistent "appeal board" is dissolved, and full free speech is returned to the forum. I hope you pro-zoners out there learned something of a lesson. The loss of property rights is far more significant, under the LUMP, than the last couple of day's loss of free speech rights has been on this blog. And you can bet that my "appeals board" -- not being a politically selected body -- would behave more honorably than the LUMP's.
If you are a pro-zoner that can think in abstractions, then perhaps you will realize that the very idea of taking away your God-given rights, and then having a bunch of politically appointed hacks in charge of whether you get them back, or not, is, by it's very nature, outrageous and intolerable. Yet that is the essence of the zoning plan you are so anxious to impose at bayonet point, on your neighbor.
Think about how unhappy you were to see selective enforcement of the blog rules, and the blatant favoritism of the blogmaster. And then multiply that by a hundred, to see how you'd feel if someone told you how you could use the land you "own" and pay taxes on.
Then try to realize that there are other ways, besides zoning, to achieve the goals of protection from nuisances that is your goal. And remember that I pledge now, as I have before, to offer unlimited assistance in developing a nuisance protection plan, that will satisfy both sides of this divisive issue. Working together, we can fix this problem once and for all, and make Giles County a much better place to live in. Isn't it at least worth trying???
You guys are so stupid!
I agree, these guys need to get a life! Or a real job so that they won't have so much time on their hands.
Allen, it's you guys who have created so many "uninformed" citizens by scaring them to death about the horrors of zoning ordinances. And it's also you guys who call those politicians "out of touch" who would disagree with you. I stand behind an earlier statement that was made on this blog. Those in positions of governance sometimes have to enact laws for the betterment of society, in spite of those who would complain. In short, they make laws that protect law-abiding citizens from their OWN neighbors. Surely you can see that.......can't you?
Anonymous, Sunday, August 13, 2006 2:39:46 PM
First let me say, I do not belong to any group or have an agenda.
“And it’s also you guys who call those politicians “out of touch” who would disagree with you.”
As I sat at one of the precincts on Election Day for a relative, I heard the same complaints from some of the candidates present with us there. Some of the comments were, “those people don’t know what they are talking about and think they know everything.” “They are just a bunch of nuts that think they can tell us what to do.” “The LUMP has never hurt anyone.” Just to name a few statements that were made. So, I personally think the politicians and concerned public should have a town hall meeting to maybe better settle this long running differences of opinions from the two strong believers of their issues. What about it gentleman are willing to give it a try?
THE AGENDA OF NO AGENDA - candidates complain - bunch of nuts - arrogance - hates anyone who disagrees - lump never hurt anyone - need town hall meeting - scaring citizens - ///"Those in positions of governance sometimes have to enact laws for the betterment of society, in spite of those who would complain."/// make laws that protect law abiding citizens from their neighbors ... In other words, only the zoner knows what's best and everyone else must be made to follow.
We have a handful of people who want to eliminate free government. "Of the people", isn't arbitrary rule by 20%, especially the 1% or 2% who create conflict so they can take over their little community ... or the world! We aren't talking about city ordinances. They already exist. The issue is eliminating self rule in the rural areas - taking control of all that beautiful countryside. And, what would the self anointed zoner do with it? Of course, pave it, instal street lights, map it, put fees on all private actions, and tax it into oblivion to pay for all the frills. The countryside remains beautiful because it is still one of the few free areas left in this country. Some of the little shacks that you hate are the subject of best selling paintings. The old truck or tractor you see in the field has a character you'll never comprehend. Can you say that about endless miles of concrete filled with hookers, bums, & drug dealers? How many people take a Saturday evening drive through the city, the ghettos, the blight, drug stops, etc.? Why not enforce the hundreds of laws that are not enforced? Why not enforce the sunshine law? Why plant weeds where forests grow?
You spit on the covenant "government of the people, by the people, and for the people", with the assumption that those in control must act for the betterment of the masses. That is the height of arrogance & tyranny. You want a town meeting to debate the issues on moral relevance terms, in the absence of absolutes, with no consideration to the intangibles of a freedom that so many have died for in this country. You don't want the people to vote because ... well, the people don't buy your bureaucratic crap! You hate Mr. Barrett because he defends the precepts of our freedom and has the moral fortitude and values to condemn deceit and tyranny. You are polar opposites.
Yep...they need to get a life...and stop whining!
The freedom many have died for is Democracy and one huge part of Democracy is individual voting resulting in the majority rules. So whichever way the majority rules will be the law of the land. If more pro-zoners feel strongly enough to go out attend a town meeting and cast a vote then that is what it shall be and visa-versa. And by the way it's not against the law to express your opinion regardless if you agree with it or not, that is another thing many have died to protect.
But is a referendum vote on zoning legal. Has anyone checked with the state about that?
Anonymous...we agree that a small group may be wanting to come in and take over..but it is NOT the "zoners" (as you guys call them) who are doing that. I suppose you might call me that name as well. But let me tell you that all I want is to see people have some sort of protection from outside interests. Would you like a toxic waste landfill in your backyard? I think not. And I for one don't care what farmers and private homeowners out in the county do with their own land. So, are we at least in agreement about that? Perhaps we want the same thing but have differing views about how to attain it. Could that be?
To say I would never comprehend the beauty of an old truck or tractor out in a field is absolutely silly. You know nothing of my appreciation for art. However, I do not think a salvage yard beside the house I've worked my life away to pay for is a work of art. Do you? By the way, I merely used the salvage yard as an example. You may substitute whatever you wish in its place. It wasn't an absolute.
//Opinions and points of view become tyranny and deceit when a handful of tyrants get together to violate the sunshine law, conspire to call their zoning plan a "land use act" that has nothing to do with zoning, and pass it under the cloak of secrecy. That which is created by evil acts is evil, and the stench will never leave it. Liberals think that any problem can be solved by passing a new law or perverting an old one to accomplish their ends. The divine wisdom of our Constitution has been obliterated and ignored at local, state, and federal levels - by the billions of meaningless statutes from one end of this country to the other Read Amendment 1 with emphasis on the last provision in it. The man you zoners hate (Barrett) was man handled and jailed for trying to protect that right, which was being denied by our Mr. Jackson and Gonzales, with the full backing of the then full school board! The actions, hearings, and trial was an absolute mockery of our heritage and system of justice. That evil oozed into the board of education meetings and county commission meetings. If you want to debate it on a moral relevance basis, talk to a tree. Your premise is poisoned by the seeds you plant.//
Uh.........I'm one of those dumb southerners, but I wanted to ask if those "liberals" you refer to aren't democrats?
You whiners just never quit, do you?
Some are, some aren't. The thought occured that you were a democrat, but that can't be true - you don't believe in voting.
wrong....i don't believe a handful of complainers should dictate policy.
Yeah you guys are legends in your own minds, aren't you?
What I do believe in is an informed electorate as was stated elsewhere on this blog.
Wrong, you don't believe the (80%)people should dictate policy. We are serinaded by a certified lunatic, with a PHD in Confusion, & puffed up like a tree toad - makin' lot's of noise but never visible.
Not when that 80% is ill-informed (scared spitless) by other lunatics! By the way, they did a masterful job "informing" people that they could not so much as add on to their chicken coops, etc. But we all know time has proven such things to be misrepresentations.
What an ego. The majority who know what they want are labeled ill-informed lunatics by the lonely toad who tries to cry loudest. He thinks if he is really loud & persistent, everyone will think there are many toads in the his tree, instead of one really big set of lips attached to an iddybiddy 'infibberian'
Have you built on to your chicken coop lately? hahahahah.. What a lie!
Are you ready to move in it?
No, it's for my chickens. Don't be a jackanapes!
Neither Mr. McPeters nor Mr. Barrett hold the PhD.
duhhhhhh,so what?
You caught my drift. No further explanation needed.
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